Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars/archive4


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 09:56, 30 September 2012.

Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars

 * Nominator(s): Khanassassin ☪ 18:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

After a lot of work, the article has been promoted to A Class status, I once again return to FAC with this article. And it is ready. :) Khanassassin ☪ 18:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose
 * Incredibly over-long and overly detailed plot section. Pretty much reads like a blow-by-blow account of the whole game.
 * Not quite so bad in the development section, but again too much anecdotal detail here: it recounts what tourist sights and bookshops the creator visited (rather than just saying the game was inspired the Templars, the Catacombs, or whatever). Then it recounts that the two guys were dining together, and which way the conversation turned. Then it says "A few years earlier, Cecil had played for a cricket team with the composer". I'm sure the core of these passages are noteworthy, but the article shouldn't be recounting the whole anecdotes to go with them.
 * Removed. --Khanassassin ☪ 15:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Some of the reception section reads well, the parts which consist almost entirely of others' prose. I'm partial to direct quoting, especially in reception sections, but paragraphs 2 and 3 are pretty much lists of quotes from other places. It's a rather minor point considering the one above, but "said" in used 3 out of 4 statements in paragraph 2.
 * It's slightly better now. --Khanassassin ☪ 16:54, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced about the lengthy lists of, well, lists in the legacy section. Suggest cutting out some of the less auspicious ones (e.g. 31 out of 100, perhaps those two that have the amusing "...not by LucasArts" subtitles) and introducing some commentary. Basically, this section is big on numbers and short on real info.
 * There's no was I'm removing the "NOT" lists! :P And that's not a 31 out of a 100, but a 31 out of all the iOS games ever released, with only hundred being listed. ;) --Khanassassin ☪ 15:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Some bold statements that don't appear to have citations: "The Goat Puzzle is considered by many gamers and publications to be one of the most challenging video game puzzle of all time" and "The Director's Cut is often credited as having a primary role in the rebirth of adventure games".
 * If you want to see sources for "one of the hardest puzzles of all time", visit the article of the actual puzzle; And plus, the sentence is quickly followed by two "hardest puzzles" lists. --Khanassassin ☪ 15:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Two is not "many". And there's no way you can make an "...of all time" claim and pass it off as "common knowledge, visit the Wikipedia article". bridies (talk) 15:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, OK; the "all time"'s removed. --Khanassassin ☪ 17:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * My overall feeling towards this article is an impression of quantity over quality. bridies (talk) 15:21, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Oppose

TBrandley 00:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * As well as the above; I have even more
 * Add "also known as" in front of "Circle of Blood in the United States"
 * Unlink Paris per WP:OVERLINK
 * Same goes for puzzles
 * Remove Facebook external link per WP:ELNO; then, add some other link
 * Your issues are resolved. --Khanassassin ☪ 15:06, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Oppose. Far too much plot and poorly written. A few examples: Malleus Fatuorum
 * "The game follows George Stobbart (voiced by Rolf Saxon), an American on vacation in Paris, touring Europe." If he's on vacation in Paris then he's not touring Europe.
 * When questioned by an investigator, George says: "Vacation. I'm touring Europe." Paris was one of the stops during the tour, however, due to the murder and so on, he remained in France.
 * "George and Nico return to Paris and go on their first date on the Eiffel Tower." How on Earth can you go on the Eiffel Tower? Have you seen the size of it? The sentence is inherently ambiguous in any event.
 * Uh, I don't know in what other way could I describe --this--... --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "Charles Cecil stated that he had began work on a scenario for Revolution's third game ...".
 * "he had begun working...", that's how it reads now. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "The following month, Cecil visited Paris for research on the Templars". Why is ref #16 repeated?
 * Not anymore. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "When game designer and writer Steve Ince was employed by Revolution, he had begun work on initial location sketches". I can't quite parse that.
 * I believe it's better now.
 * "... he didn't want it to be like interactive movies at the time". Too informal.
 * Not anymore. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "He made George American and Nico French to appeal to both the US and European Markets."
 * The only issue I see is the caps in "Markets", which I fixed. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "The introductory sequence and the main characters were made by animator Mike Burgess, who worked for Red Rover animation studio. The game's graphics are animated in a style which resembles classic animated films." Why "were made" but "are animated"?
 * Not anymore. "Were" is the word now. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "Cecil also drafted in the acclaimed comic book artist Dave Gibbons". You need to avoid peacockery such as "acclaimed".
 * Uh, yeah, you're right. Sorry. It's removed now. :) --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "George's journey to find out more information ...". You don't "find out" information.
 * "Obtain"? Is that correct? Just making sure. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "While the game received overall praise, certain publications voiced complaints." That appears to displaying the author's bias in favour of this game.
 * Nope. When I first started work on this article, I was completely new to Wikipedia, and a well-reputated Wikipedian Jimmy Blackwing was teaching me the ways of the wiki. So, originally, the reception section was just a couple of quotes from like four, five reviews. So Jimmy told me that the reception section should be formated similar to Super Meat Boy's. And as you can see, the final paragraph in the section reads "While the game received high praise overall, certain publications voiced complaints." - Sounds fimilar? And, really? You go around accusing people bias over articles because of pointing out that there were actual complaints? Jeez. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.