Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/CMLL World Heavyweight Championship/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 15:28, 1 April 2016.

CMLL World Heavyweight Championship

 * Nominator(s):  MPJ  -US 00:20, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

This article is about a Mexican professional wrestling championship. It was recently elevated to GA status and I believe it's got the potential to be a Feature Article as well. I have put a lot of work into this article and the associated list (List of CMLL World Heavyweight Champions, which is currently a Featured List). The article hits the level of quality, coverage, neutrality, sources etc. needed for it to be considered a Featured Article. I hope you agree.  MPJ  -US 00:20, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Comments I see quite a lot of prose issues here, plus a few other issues
 * "This is not the case with CMLL, traditionally Mexican wrestling has used multiple weight divisions, often with the lower weight classes receiving more attention from the promoters, a tradition CMLL carries on." - long sentence with multiple clause, suggest rewording to "Traditionally, however, Mexican wrestling has used multiple weight divisions, often with the lower weight classes receiving more attention from the promoters. CMLL carries on this tradition."
 * Addressed
 * "By the early 1990s CMLL began to downplay the Mexican National Heavyweight Championship featuring less frequently on CMLL shows until they stopped promoting it at all." - doesn't make grammatical sense as it stands, suggest "By the early 1990s CMLL began to downplay the Mexican National Heavyweight Championship, which featured less frequently on CMLL shows until they stopped promoting it altogether." Also, does this downplaying pre-date the 1991 tournament?  If so, you can't really say they began to downplay it in the early 90s, maybe say "By the start of the 1990s"......?
 * '@"CMLL held a 16-man Single-elimination tournament from October 30, 1992"'' - no reason for capital S on Single
 * Addressed
 * " to become the 8th over all champion" - overall is one word
 * Addressed
 * "In September 1997 Steel, signed a contract" - that comma should not be there
 * Addressed
 * "World Wrestling Federation (WWF later WWE)" => "World Wrestling Federation (WWF, later WWE)"
 * Addressed
 * "the second time in the history of championship" => "the second time in the history of the championship"
 * Addressed
 * "Instead of a holding a traditional tournament" - first "a" should not be there
 * "and have the new champion decided in a match between the three" - needs to be in the past tense
 * Addressed
 * "Universo 2000 would lose the title to and regain" - why not just "Universo 2000 lost the title to and regained"
 * Addressed
 * "title four times over all" - as above
 * Addressed
 * That whole paragraph has a lot of very short sentences in quick succession, can you combine any?
 * Addressed
 * "defend the title four times over all, defeating Lizmark Jr., Universo 2000 and Último Guerrero." - that only makes three opponents, presumably he defended against one twice? If so, clarify this.
 * Addressed, it was three times I checked on that.
 * "Towards the end of Dos Caras Jr. title reign" => "Towards the end of Dos Caras Jr.'s title reign"
 * Removed that sentence in general
 * "marking the first time the CMLL World title has been defended on a non-CMLL promoted show" => "marking the first time the CMLL World title was defended on a non-CMLL promoted show"
 * Addressed
 * "He's the 19th overall champion" => "He is the 19th overall champion"
 * Addressed
 * "Universo 2000 has held the title the most times, three." - seems a bit too conversational, maybe "Universo 2000 has held the title the most times, with three reigns."
 * Addressed
 * "their departures from the company was so sudden" - departures is plural, so "was" is the wrong word to use
 * Addressed
 * Under rules you switch between having a capital C on championship and not having a capital - pick one and be consistent
 * Addressed, I have tried to use lower case "c" unless it's the name of one of the championships. I believe that is the appropriate usage.
 * I don't understand how the text about the 1991 tournament relates to the bracket. The text says the first two rounds consisted of battle royals, but the bracket makes it look like regular matches took place, with Konnan defeating Brazo de Plata, Mascara Ano 2000 defeating Vampiro, etc.
 * You're right it should be a different type of brackets, I will look through the options to see if anything works better.
 * Well I found as good a solution as I could think of to this.
 * Also, note 2 doesn't make sense. It says "Pirata Morgan was originally scheduled to compete but did not show up. El Egipcio wrestled in his place despite having already lost a tournament match.", yet it shows Pirata winning and progressing to the next round?
 * Because I wrote the wrong name, it was a wrestler named Herodes that was replaced
 * That's it for now, if I spot anything else I will let you know...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:07, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for all the comments, it's really helping making it a much better article. MPJ  -US 01:06, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I just realized it's been five days since your commented, wanted to be sure you are aware that I replied. MPJ  -US 02:13, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * - I was hoping you could take a moment to go over my updates at some point and let me know if they're sufficient.  MPJ  -US 11:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Humblest apologies, I kept meaning to check back in but forgot. Anyway, a few other points I've noticed.............
 * "which forced CMLL to vacate the championship for the second time in the history of the championship" => best to avoid using the word Championship twice so close together
 * Fixed
 * "Universo 2000 lost the title to and regain the title" => regained
 * Fixed
 * "Mr. Niebla was champion for 543 day" => days
 * Fixed
 * "the first time the CMLL World title was been defended" => was defended
 * fixed
 * "With a total of twelve CMLL promoted championships being labelled as "World" title" => titles
 * fixed
 * In the 1991 tournament section, there is a reference to El Egipico - is that the right spelling?
 * Made sure the spelling is consistent and correct.
 * In the same section, the sentence about starting "in the second" has no period at the end
 * Fied
 * The wrestler mentioned above is also spelt Egipico in the 1992 tournament section
 * Fixed
 * Refs 8, 9 and 16 all use the word "mejr". I can't speak Spanish but I am pretty sure this is not a valid Spanish word
 * Should have been "mejor", typo that was then replicated when I copied one reference template to use for the other references. Fixed now.
 * Cheers -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:40, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize, I know how it is, making plans and life happens. Thank you for your feedback, I believe I have addressed it all. MPJ  -US 22:19, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Support - looks OK now -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:27, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Comments by Ɱ
I probably won't comment on prose until the above is addressed, so any work isn't redundant. The references look good, although perhaps consider editing the order each parameter occurs, for consistency? And when you line everything up, you often find things that are missing or inconsistent. For example, some dates are written solely using numbers, while others include the month written out. The MOS recommends using one format. And I recommend adding wikilinks to the publishers and locations if available (Not sure if this is officially recommended, though I find it useful). Also, reference 21 isn't working for me.
 * I fixed the date formats, I will check on the reference and link publishers that have articles.  MPJ  -US 01:06, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Citation 21 is the NJPW link as far as I can tell and clicking the link works for me?? MPJ  -US 01:10, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

The images mostly seem fine, though File:NormanSmiley2007.png should have a PD license like the original upload. As well, File:KonnanJuly2011.png has the wrong license, it's licensed on Flickr as CC-BY 2.0, not CC-BY-SA 1.0. File:ValVenis chalkphoto.jpg should link to Flickr's image description page, not the all sizes page.
 * Fixed the Konnan pic, I am not sure what to do about the other two, not that familiar with image work unfortunately.  MPJ  -US 01:20, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

That's all for now. ɱ (talk · vbm  · coi) 00:08, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I forgot to bookmark the page, like a rookie, so I did not see these comments until right now. I will get to work addressing everything mentioned right now. Sorry for the delay and than you Ɱ for pointing this out.  MPJ  -US 00:40, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * That's fine, I fixed the other two photo descriptions. Also, I tried citation 21 today and it was working for me... ɱ  (talk · vbm  · coi) 01:43, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm working on prose now, I made a few changes, but I'll have questions and more changes. For starters, "the 15th overall person to hold the championship and the 18th overall champion." doesn't make sense to me - what differentiates a champion from someone 'holding the championship? Is the word "overall" actually necessary here? ɱ  (talk · vbm  · coi) 01:45, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So what I am trying to say is that 15 different people have held the championship for a total of 19 18 reigns, since some have held them on multiple occasions. Keyword is "trying", sounds ike that does not come across correctly. MPJ  -US 02:03, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Is Maximo the 18th or 19th champion? You state it differently in the lead vs. the 'Reigns' section. Also, why aren't Maximo's CMLL tournaments in the 'Tournaments' section? ɱ  (talk · vbm  · coi) 01:52, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Clarified that he is the 18th, 19th must have been a typo. Not sure what you mean "Maximo's tournaments"? He defeated El Terrible to win the championship, not a tournament. MPJ  -US 02:11, 21 February 2016 (UTC)


 * - I was hoping you could give my updates and comments a onceover and let me know where we stand? MPJ  -US 11:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I will for sure this weekend! ɱ  (talk · vbm  · coi) 05:50, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Support based on prose, images, references, etc. I have no further comments. ɱ (talk · vbm  · coi) 18:35, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Coordinator note: After more than two months, consensus to promote has not developed. Therefore, I will be archiving the nomination. -- Laser brain  (talk)  15:28, 1 April 2016 (UTC) -- Laser brain  (talk)  15:28, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.