Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cerro Tuzgle/archive1

Cerro Tuzgle

 * Nominator(s): Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

This article is about a rather unremarkable volcano in Argentina, which is mostly important because it is one of the few recently active volcanoes in the Puna. There are some ideas to use it or its neighbour Tocomar for geothermal power generation. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Image review—pass no licensing issues found (t &#183; c)  buidhe  18:17, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Support from Gog the Mild
Recusing to review.


 * Sources: "Tuzgle" access date?
 * Added. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "may have continued into the Holocene." Which was when?
 * Added. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Main body: It seems strange that a reader doesn't find out what Cerro Tuzgle is until the second paragraph. Can I strongly suggest moving the first paragraph of Geography and geomorphology to the end of that section.
 * Eh, I think the current order geography->volcano makes more sense - that Tuzgle is a volcano is already said elsewhere. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * As you wish, but you need to tell a reader what you are talking about at the start of the article. so 'Cerro Tuzgle is a dormant stratovolcano located near the eastern border of the Argentinian Puna.' or similar
 * Um, it does already say "Cerro Tuzgle is a dormant stratovolcano in the Susques Department of Jujuy Province in Argentina."? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It says that in the lead. The first words of this bullet point are "Main body".
 * Well, my thinking was that people are unlikely to read a section without even noticing the first sentence of the lead. I've written something though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:09, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


 * "kilometres" is used 24 times. The MoS suggests "In prose, unit names should be given in full if used only a few times, but symbols may be used when a unit (especially one with a long name) is used repeatedly, after spelling out the first use".
 * Abbreviated most. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "is reported northwest from Cerro Tuzgle". That seems a strange phrase. Are we uncertain whether it exists?
 * Aye, I don't see that place mentioned in many places. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If we are not sure of its existence, should we be mentioning it at all? As a minimum a reader should be warned of the places possible non-existence.
 * Well, I failed a spot check. It shows up on Google as "Puesto Sey, Ruta Nacional 40, Puesto Sey, Jujuy Province, Argentina". Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:09, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


 * "In 1926 it was reported that a crater lake lies on the summit." Any information on this more recent than 96 years ago?
 * No. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "began to form in the Eocene-Oligocene"; "During the Miocene and Pliocene", "of Ordovician age" etc. Dates please.
 * Added. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Link lineament.
 * Linked. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "into the foreland of Argentina". I don't think that where you mean will be clear to most readers.
 * Explained. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "It is a strike-slip fault". What is "It"?
 * Explained. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "which define a" seems an odd phrase. Perhaps 'which result in' or similar?
 * Used "constitute", they are not a compound. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "reach 2–20 metres per second (6.6–65.6 ft/s)." Can we have these in accessible units please.
 * I don't think any other unit is more accessible. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I would not expect an average reader to grasp what 6 m/s was, I would expect them to understand 70 kph.
 * Done, with km/h. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * "snowfall [is] common ... The region is arid, with less than 100 millimetres (3.9 in) annual precipitation". Sounds contradictory. Where is the measurement site for that <100 mm?
 * "Annual precipitation there". Where?
 * (regarding both queries) Hmm, sources often disagree on the exact values, probably because there are lots of mountains and few gauges. Snowfalls often are undercounted in gauges, which is an acknowledged problem in the region. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I had assumed that would be the case. Could this be explained in the article.
 * This source mentions the issue, but in the context of the Atacama rather than the Puna so I am not sure whether to use it here per WP:OR Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Bleh! The phenomenon almost needs its own article. I'll leave it with you as to whether there is anything sufficiently general in the Atacama article to support a brief explanation - I think we can be reasonably generous re OR. But if you decide to leave it as it is, then it's not a deal breaker for me.


 * "Trichomycterus fish have been found in creeks around the volcano." would be better with animals than precipitation.
 * Moved it up. One wonders how the fish ended up there. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "buried by aeolian material". Can we have "aeolian" in plain English please.
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "300,000±1,000,000". Really? So it may not yet have happened? And that is a stunning degree of uncertainty.
 * Yes, really. We only have oldfashioned K-Ar dates for most of these volcanoes, if we have any at all. C14 and Ar-Ar are very underused so far in the non-Peruvian Central Volcanic Zone. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Don't start a section with "These hot springs", specify what you are talking about.
 * Rewritten. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Von Rosen". Is that their full name?
 * The source has him as "E. Von Rosen" which isn't better. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * My, admittedly flaky, translation of that source has von Rosen climbing and exploring the volcano, rather than a clear statement that he was the first summitter. ORing, such a late first recorded ascent seems highly improbable for such a straight forward climb.
 * It's a remote region, but yes. I'll remove that mention. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:09, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a stroll, not a climb. Works outings go up it.

Gog the Mild (talk) 16:17, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Ceruti"; "Norini": names in full at first mention.
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "was reportedly issued by 1933". "reportedly"? Was it or wasn't it?
 * Rewritten. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It looks like JoJo has replied to your comments, prepared to support or oppose?


 * Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:21, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * - Of course there's no obligation to, but do you feel comfortable supporting or opposing? Hog Farm Talk 03:06, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Apologies for taking so long to get back on these. A few further come backs. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 11:54, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you check for dup-links. Eg Holocene, Pleistocene ...
 * Could you check that each geological period has an explanation of when it was at first mention.
 * Footnote f doesn't make sense to me. Is something missing?
 * I think I got these. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Good stuff. Supporting. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:53, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Realmaxxver
Placeholder. Realmaxxver (talk) 09:03, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Its name, which is also rendered as Tujle, Tugle or Tugler, comes from the Kunza language. It means "knoll" and refers to the shape of the volcano.[9]" → "Its name, which is also rendered as Tujle, Tugle or Tugler, comes from the Kunza language; it means "knoll", referring to the shape of the volcano.[9]"
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:21, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Volcanoguy

 * Geography and geomorphology


 * "A 0.5 square kilometres (0.19 sq mi) platform" — A 0.5 km2 platform.
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "these include Mina Betty on the northwestern flank[22] between 5,000–5,350 metres (16,400–17,550 ft) elevation where in 1939 seven sulfur outcrops were reported" — Should "these include" be "this includes" since only one sulfur mine is mentioned here?
 * I think the current form is more correct. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "The Quebrada Aguas Calientes passes west and Quebrada de Charcos east of the volcano;[27] the latter becomes Quebrada Los Charcos north of the volcano and converges with Quebrada Aguas Calientes." — Are these streams?
 * Or dry valleys, hence I did not specify. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Local


 * "The basement is formed by Cambrian and Precambrian formations[35] of metamorphic character" — What is meant by "metamorphic character"?
 * Formations made up of metamorphic rocks. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Eruption history


 * "Cerro Tuzgle was active during the Pleistocene[25] and its most recent eruption may have followed a period of inactivity." — This is pretty obvious since most volcanoes are active intermittently.
 * Not all of them are; Etna and Stromboli are pretty regularly active and they are very well known. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * True, but that doesn't seem to be the case with Cerro Tuzgle. Volcanoguy 00:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, but why would a reader know that? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:22, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "forming a 80 metres (260 ft) thick plateau" — forming an 80 m thick plateau
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "The middle and upper parts contain pumice" — Is this referring to the plateau?
 * No, the ignimbrite. Specified this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "It consists of massive, up to 15 metres (49 ft) thick, dark grey to reddish-brown coloured lava flows." — 15 m thick
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Mafic andesite lava filled the caldera" — Andesite is intermediate not mafic.
 * Hmm, the source does treat that andesite as mafic. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

All of this from my first pass. The article is overall in a good shape. Volcanoguy 06:45, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Volcanoguy 20:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Harry
—HJ Mitchell &#124; Penny for your thoughts? 21:35, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Opening sentence: I like to explain where something is in terms somebody unfamiliar with the area can understand (eg north-western Argentina), rather than just the local government division.
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * and was constructed during different stages "constructed" to me implies man-made. Is there a better verb?
 * Went with "grew". Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * flanked by 1–2 metres (3 ft 3 in – 6 ft 7 in) high you can use |adj=on in the convert template to produce the hyphens and adjectival form.
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Numerous young-looking lava flows descend the slopes can we have some context for "young"? Months, years, decades, centuries?
 * Unfortunately we don't know this. "Young looking" in the context of lava flows refers to appearance, but it can mean different things depending on the volcano. In particular, in dryland volcanoes a "young looking" flow can be quite ancient. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Abandoned sulfur mines occur Mines don't naturally "occur", and presumably were built before they were abandoned?
 * Yes, changed that. I think I tend to overuse "occurred" in my writings. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * whereas after 1.5 million years ago Maybe "from" 1.5 million years ago to avoid the potential confusion from having "after" and "ago" so close together?
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I only had minor quibbles and you've addressed them. Support. HJ Mitchell</b> &#124; <span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts? 17:29, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Source review
Footnote numbers refer to this version. Other than that, sources all look reliable and I can see no formatting errors. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:43, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Suggest adding access dates to Garcia & Sruoga and Tuzgle/Global Volcanism Program.
 * The link to Ahumada is giving me a 404 error.
 * The link for Bustos et al. appears to be intended to go to the article specifically, but it does not.
 * You give "Geothermal investigations with isotope and geochemical techniques in Latin America" but the linked page gives the title "Flow patterns at the Tuzgle-Tocomar geothermal system, Salta-Jujuy, Argentina. An isotopic and geochemical approach" -- is this linking to the right article?
 * The OSU Volcano World link gives me a 404 error.
 * Dealt with these. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:18, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Fixes look good; pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:15, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Mike Christie
I've copyedited; please revert anything you disagree with. That's all I can see. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:53, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The lead says "three lava flow units were named San Antonio, Azufre, and Tuzgle", but in the body it seems as if this is just one of two possible reconstructions. Shouldn't the lead by less definite?
 * Also to avoid the implication that the naming happened on the same timescale as the flows, perhaps make it "Subsequently, lava domes were erupted; the three resulting lava flow units have been named San Antonio..."
 * Rewrote this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:23, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The paragraph starting "Magma mixing processes" changes tenses from past to present halfway through; I think it should stay in the past throughout.
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:23, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "and is partially welded": "welded" looks like a term of art; can you provide a link?
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:23, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I see you added a Wiktionary link; the problem is that the standard meaning -- "to join together" -- doesn't make sense to a reader unfamiliar with geological processes, so the link isn't helpful. The article says the ignimbrite "flowed" and that it's "partially welded".  To a lay reader, "flowed" implies a single continuous substance; "welded" implies the joining of two different entities.  So what does weld mean here?  As I said, it doesn't have to be an inline explanation if there's a suitable link, but I don't think the Wiktionary link suffices. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 13:50, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem is that I can't find an usable explanation of "welded". I think it's saying that in a welded ignimbrite, the ignimbrite consists of rocks that have partially melted and fused with each other while in unwelded ignimbrite they are still separate fragments. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:56, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should include material we can't explain. We do have some professional geologists who are active editors; you could ask one of them?  We can cut it if you're confident it's a sufficently minor point, but it would be better to understand it if we can. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 14:04, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It's relatively minor so I've cut it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 14:31, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "The "Young Flow" unit is considered to be of Holocene or Pleistocene-Holocene age,[1] which is represented by multiple young lava flows": if I'm reading this correctly, this would be better as "and is represented by".
 * Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:23, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:39, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Hog Farm Talk 14:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)