Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Corn Crake/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 21:33, 23 August 2011.

Corn Crake

 * Nominator(s):  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:05, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Once common, and the cause of many sleepless nights, this rail has now declined over much of its range due to changes in haymaking techniques. There is a bucketful of information out there, but much is repetitive or concerned with local conservation projects. If I've omitted anything important, let me know  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:05, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The page title is Corn Crake, the main infobox uses Conrcrake. I advise you choose one or the other. I haven't actually read the nomination, I just noticed that when I clicked on. And now for the real reason I'm here:
 * Oops, can't imagine how I missed that in dozens of read-throughs, fixed  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Image Review
 * All the required information at the description page for File:Crexcrex.png seems to be there, but it really should be in a template. 07:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I started with the template, but it wouldn't display properly, so ditched. I don't think it's mandatory to use the template, I've used text in many other FAs  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The template is not a "Requirement" however it is the closest thing to a gold standard that we have for the logical and orderly display of the information, so it's a "strongly recommended" in my book. I'll look into the display issues for you.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  12:51, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  12:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The information at the description page for File:Crex crex00.jpg needs to have an English translation. 07:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I assumed that the description in the copyright box was adequate, but translation added now  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Both images in the section "Behaviour" need caption text.
 * Done, the egg actually had a caption, but it didn't show because it wasn't a thumbnail  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I am personally not a fan of the White Stork image being in the article. If it stays, it needs to be clarified. What is mowing? It just says "The White Stork will kill chicks exposed by mowing", and the text in that section dosen't give any indication as to what you're referring to either.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  07:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I usually show a predator or parasite, it's appropriate in this section and hasn't been queried before. I assume that "mow" was a common enough word not to need a link, but maybe a different term is used for grass cutting in North America. Now linked in caption and first occurrence in text.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for image review  Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. Good luck.  S ven M anguard   Wha?  12:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for fix <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:44, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:31, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Koffijberg, Kees or Kees, Koffijberg?
 * Be consistent in how editors are notated
 * Ref 22: which volume is being consulted here? Also, is there meant to be a hyphen at the end of the ISBN, or is something missing?
 * Series names should generally not be italicized
 * What do CMS and AEWA stand for? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:31, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review. All above fixed. I couldn't see any other editor inconsistencies apart from the Kees/Koffijberg slip, let me know if I've missed something. Ref 22 tweaked and isbn fixed. Series name removed, abbreviations spelt out. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:28, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment - There were a few typos such as "...a loud nocturnal call that sometimes leadto disturbed sleep for rural dwellers, the Corn Crake..." under the In Culture section. Also, in the Status section, the phrase "In much of the west of its range," was at first a bit confusing. It might be beneficial to change it to something such as "In much of the western half of its range," A ctrl+F search showed that in the Distribution and Habitat section, "Corncrake" appeared twice. In the Status section, "Corncrake" appears three times, one of which is lacking capitalization. I am unsure if this is necessary, but you might consider adding a source stating that its name was derived from the krek krek call of the male. Hopefully my comments are of use, even if they are a bit "nitpicky". Micromann (talk) 10:06, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments. Typos fixed, also name &mdash; I'm afraid I still think of it as one word. "Status" tweaked as suggested. With regard to the call, if you mean in the Lead section, having references there is now discouraged. The derivation and the call are referenced under "Taxonomy" and "Voice" respectively. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:17, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah. Sorry, I did not know that was discouraged. Thanks for the speedy response. Micromann (talk) 15:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Lit review Sorry I'm late to the party. I'm not sure if the comprehensive criterion is yet met. There's a lot of published scientific literature... here's a small sampling of publications from 2009–2011 that, judging by their titles, look interesting and possibly suitable for inclusion. I can prepare a more comprehensive list if you like. Sasata (talk) 21:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * (moved to talk) Sasata (talk) 06:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Reply Thanks for lit review. I said in the nom above that there is a huge amount of literature, and I've had to be selective. I get no clear sense from the list of what you think has been inadequately covered. I've deliberately avoided articles like the Yorkshire one &mdash; there are lots of similar regional items, mostly in the UK, and I thought it more important to paint the overall picture for Europe, rather than have an endless parochial list of local declines. Similarly, of those articles I've seen, I can't see what the Irish, Transyvanian or Egyptian articles add in terms of new content, as opposed to local detail. I've used several of Rhys Green's studies, but I couldn't see that the one you quote was adding a great deal that was new. I have used the Graham source now, which I overlooked despite having a hard copy. It's a captive study, but since it suggests only that only the male builds the nest, whereas the prestigious BWP, and all other sources which give an opinion (Taylor doesn't), say only the female, that's clearly worth mentioning. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak  - </b> talk to me?  10:22, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're right, in retrospect most are local reports. I'll move this list to the archive talk page; I'm away for about a week, and will give a full review then. Sasata (talk) 06:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Support – Consider all my comments below dealt with; I believe the article meets FA criteria. Sasata (talk) 12:53, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made several changes to the article text to save time; please review and revert if you don't agree
 * Fine <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * link chestnut, downy
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "This secretive species builds a nest of grass leaves in a hollow in the ground and lays 6–14 rufous-blotched cream-coloured eggs." Would it be better to avoid the double hyphen complex with something like "This secretive species builds a nest of grass leaves in a hollow in the ground and lays 6–14 cream-coloured eggs that are covered with rufous blotches."?
 * Done as suggested <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "The Corn Crake is omnivorous, but mainly feeds on invertebrates, along with small frogs and mammals, and plant material including grass seed and cereal grain." Perhaps this could be tweaked slightly; one might read this as small frogs and mammals also eat invertebrates.
 * "Occasional small frog or mammal" 06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * link introduced, taxonomy, wetland, specific name
 * Done<b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "The English names refer to this species' nesting in dry hay or cereal fields, rather than the marshes used by most members of this family." The somewhat awkward noun+ing construction could be tweaked to "The English names refer to the habit of the species to nest in dry hay or cereal fields, rather than the marshes used by most members of this family."
 * Done as suggested <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * link tawny
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "The Corn Crake is silent in Africa."I'm surprised no-one has commented about this (so maybe it's just me), but this sentence, given without any explanation, and at the start of the subsection, seems to stick out.
 * A previous reviewer asked me to put it there, moved back to end <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * indicate the crake call sound file is from a male?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "This crake winters mainly in Africa" Subject of "this" not completely unambiguous, as the sentence starts a new paragraph, and the last crake discussed was the African Rail
 * Done, clarified <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "This is mainly a lowland species, but breeds up to 1,400 m (4,600 ft) altitude" I still think new paragraphs shouldn't start with "This"
 * Done, starts with the name now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "In China, flax is also used as for nest sites." not sure if there's an extra word in there (as)
 * removed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "and, also in Scotland in 1999" was it in Scotland and in 1999, or just in Scotland?
 * Removed Scotland, since linked from Barra <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "The nest, well hidden in the grass, is built in a scrape or hollow in the ground, is made of woven coarse dry grass and other plants, and lined with finer grasses." run-on
 * Fixed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "In the Netherlands, 33 territories in 1996 increased to at least 500 in 1998." Not sure what this means… there used to be 33 territories where the bird was found but there are now 500?
 * Clarified <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Mrs. Beaton's recipe is too small to read; could it be enlarged? Also, it seems to me like File:Corncrake2.jpg is the best image available (as it shows the whole animal); why not have this in the taxobox. The current lead image might be better in Behaviour ( "…usually being hidden by vegetation")
 * Images fixed, Beeton forced to 300px <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * link "Loss of habitat"
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "where migrating birds are captured in nets set for the Quail with which they often migrate." Not sure if Quail should be decapitalized here?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "quarry species" any link for this? I suspect it's a Brit Eng term, perhaps with a legal definition?
 * Rephrased as "where hunting is allowed" <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I note that Marvell's poem fragment is not italicized, while Clare's fragment is.
 * All in-text quotes in quotation marks now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Refs: Seebohm's book was edited after his death (see here), perhaps this should also be in the citation?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Theresa Clay is given as the co-author of the 1952 "Fleas Flukes …."; could you check if this is supposed to be Theresa Child?
 * It says Clay on the title page


 * could you check the page number for Mrs. Beaton's book? An online source I found here doesn't match up
 * There's something seriously wrong with the version you have linked. Pages jump from 384 to 805, and recipes from 817 to 1778. The land rail recipe is 1033, as listed in the index, but of course doesn't appear at all <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * location for Holden and Cleeves 2010?
 * Done<b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for detailed review, I think everything is fixed now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And thanks for support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments from Ucucha:
 * You pipe both "rail family" and "crake" to Rallidae in the lead; that's a bit confusing.
 * Unlinked "crake" now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems that the article text never links to the article on the genus Crex.
 * Oops, fixed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Is there some reason for linking the Azores but not the Faroes?
 * Since the Faroes are self-governing, I treated the archipelago as a country. Linked now to be on the safe side <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Specify that Barra and Tiree are in Scotland.
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Haven't finished reading yet. Ucucha 03:54, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "The annual adult survival rate is under 30%, although a typical lifespan for an adult may be 5–7 years."—that doesn't make statistical sense
 * No it doesn't make sense. Although it's what the book source says, it's clearly inconsistent with the rock-solid data from the BTO and the Rhys Green paper. Rephrased as "some individuals may live for 5–7 years."
 * Thanks for review and comments <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:21, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fixes. Ucucha 13:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Support as all comments have been addressed (long ago, in fact). The article still looks good. Ucucha (talk) 19:03, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments from Philcha:
 * Should "Taxonomy" be the first section. I usually put it near the end, as it is more useful for ornithologists (or equivalents in other taxa) and may be a barrier for general readers - e.g. "Principle of Priority" and " tautonymous" (I never saw the latter term before). --Philcha (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Most bird articles start with Taxonomy, so we can define what we are talking about. Since I want this to end up in a featured topic, I'm reluctant to change the order, although I agree with with making it more readable. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Much of it is basic stuff - common names, who named it, relatives etc. But more importantly, many many bird and other FAs have taxonomy as section number 1 - this allows "description" to be section number 2 and have images in that section not abut the taxobox. Hence we'd then have inconsistent formatting across bird FAs. We can examine order of all articles in an RfC.''Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Re location of "Taxonomy", OK (sigh!). --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd re-structure "Taxonomy" into 2 paras: all the content about the name, including "The binomial name, ... official version is now "Corn Crake""; the affiliations, "The taxonomy of the small crakes is complicated ... are near relatives of the Crex genus." --Philcha (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Done, please check that I've understood correctly <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Taxonomy": What common features unite the genus and, if feasible and not too long, the family? --Philcha (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * This was added by another editor. Now "The earlier use of crex gives it priority over Bechstein's specific name pratensis, and leads to the current name of Crex crex, which reads better <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * See below ("Taxonomy" II). --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Taxonomy": I'd reverse the sentences "The English names refer to this species nesting in dry hay or cereal fields, rather than the marshes used by most rails. The common name was formerly spelt as a single word, "Corncrake", but the official version is now "Corn Crake", so that "The common name was ..." explains ""The English names refer to  ...". --Philcha (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Description": In "Males weigh 165 g (5.8 oz) on ...", IMO "are generally smaller and lighter" is redundant. If you think the result would be a too short sentence, you could combine it with the previous one. --Philcha (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Description": IMO sentence "There are no subspecies; although birds become paler and greyer towards the east of the range, the change is clinal, and there is great individual variation in colour within all populations" is clumsy, including the "semi-comma splice", and "clinal" IMO should be in plain English ("gradually") with w-link to cline; and I'd w-link subspecies, which has significant payload. How about e.g. "While there are no subspecies, all populations show great individual variation in colouring, and the birds gradually become paler and greyer towards the east of the range"? --Philcha (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done as suggested <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Description": Would the reference to Africa be better in "by late August or early September, before migrating to south eastern Africa "? --Philcha (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Voice": IMO "As might be expected with this skulking species" may look like editorialism. And IMO "localisation" is ugly. How about e.g. "The call has evolved to make a singing male's location clear, as this species hides in thick vegetation." I suggested linking to sexual selection, as males appear more at risk of predators. I considered the alternative, natural selection, but this seems not quite right. --Philcha (talk) 10:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll think again about " thick vegetation", after seeing section "Distribution and habitat" para 2. Would "moderate vegetation" do the job? --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed adjective altogether <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Voice": I'd move "Slight differences in vocalisations mean that individual males can be distinguished by their calls" to just after "... challenge intruding males and attract females", where it would emphasis the advertising function. --Philcha (talk) 10:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Voice": Could "Males can be attracted by mechanical imitations of their call. These can be produced by rubbing a piece of wood down a notched stick, or by flicking a credit card against a comb or zip-fastener" be combined? E.g. "To attract males, mechanical imitations of their call can be produced by ..."--Philcha (talk)
 * Good, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Voice": I'd insert a para break after all the stuff about males' calls. --Philcha (talk) 10:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Voice": I'd moved "The Corn Crake is silent in Africa" to the top of the section, so that readers see the scope up-front. --Philcha (talk) 10:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review so far, there was an edit conflict half way through editing here, please check that nothings been lost or altered <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:01, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, Jimfbleak. AFAIK None of my comments were lost. Might be good to check with Casliber. --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll check out your responses, and then work through the rest (?later). --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Taxonomy": What's the meaning of "primitive" in "the most primitive forms are found in the Old World". The only potential w-link is Primitive (phylogenetics), but AFAIK Corn Crake doesn't go into phylogenetics. Sorry, I forgot this item at the time. --Philcha (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * changed to "least specialised" <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": I find the structure of this section confusing. How about sub-sections covering: (a) the breeding areas, including areas where populations have vanished or become sparse; (b) the usual winter quarters, including "There are several nineteenth-century records, .. between December and February"; (c) migration routes and vagrants; (d) habitats, which seem to be similar in both hemispheres - assuming I understand all this. --Philcha (talk) 13:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As suggested, although I've kept the habitat bits for breeding and wintering as separate paras; although similar, they're not identical. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The large-scale structure is better, thanks. I've comments about individual paras, see below. --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": IMO "vagrant" should be linked to vagrancy (biology), as we're not talking about tramps. --Philcha (talk) 13:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": I'll re-review this section when we've resolved the structure. --Philcha (talk) 13:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Distribution and habitat": Would "This is mainly a lowland species, but breeds up to 1,400 m ..." be best at the start of the section, before the longer and more complex parts about horizontal distribution? --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": I find the structure of "The Corn Crake breeds from Britain and Ireland ... misidentification of the eggs of the African Rail" confusing (unless I've losing it). --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * now "result from misidentification of eggs in a museum collection which are actually those of the African Rail" <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Much clearer, thanks. --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": What does "former" in "with a former natural range mainly between 41°N and 62°N" mean? Looks like you or the sources have crammed a quart into a pint pot. --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * now "Although it has been lost from much of its historic range, this bird was once found in suitable habitat in Eurasia everywhere between latitudes 41°N and 62°N.". Is that clearer? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ditto. --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": Can "There is also a sizable population in western China.[21] It nests only rarely in northern Spain and in Turkey" be combined? --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": Should "old claims of breeding in South Africa are incorrect, and result from misidentification of the eggs of the African Rail" be a separate sentence? --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": In "Its status in Africa is not well known, but most of the South African population of about 2,000 birds occurs in KwaZulu-Natal and the former Transvaal Province", the word "status" is hard to interpret. How about e.g. "Most of the South African population of about 2,000 birds occurs in KwaZulu-Natal and the former Transvaal Province, and numbers elsewhere in Africa are uncertain." --Philcha (talk) 15:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done as you suggest <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": In "When breeding in Eurasia, the Corn Crake is a bird of open habitats, which would originally have included river meadows", the word "open" may be ambiguous. How about e.g. "When breeding in Eurasia, the Corn Crake's habitats would originally have included river meadows ...". --Philcha (talk) 16:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Distribution and habitat": How about "On migration, in addition to the expected habitats, the Corn Crake may also occur in wheatfields and at around golf courses". --Philcha (talk) 16:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done, that's much better <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You still have " in golf courses" - is there a reason for "in". I suggested "around" as I couldn't imagine the birds feeding in putting greens or bunkers or even the fairway - but I could be wrong. PS I've w-linked golf courses. --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think section "Distribution and habitat" is now fine. --Philcha (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Behaviour": "individuals may become very (confiding) trusting"? See Confiding - Definition from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary, I think "confiding" applies only to human communication. --Philcha (talk) 17:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Confiding" is actually often used in bird books, but I take the point, changed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Behaviour": I think that, in "would come for chicken feed once the intended recipients had finished", the cure ("intended recipients") is worse than the disease, and I'd use "chickens" again. See Victor Borge :-) --Philcha (talk) 17:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Done, but avoided repetition by saying "poultry feed"
 * Nice one! --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Behaviour": " This rail The Corn Crake is most active early and late in the day, ...", as the African Crake (previous sentence) is also a rail? --Philcha (talk) 17:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Behaviour": I'd move "If flushed by a dog, ... crouch on landing" and "If disturbed in the open, ... watch the intruder" to just before "When captured it may feign death, ..." so all avoidance of threats are one package. --Philcha (talk) 17:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason for not moving "If flushed by a dog, ... crouch on landing"? --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Breeding": I'm uncertain about the sequence of events in para 1: "A male will challenge an intruder ...pecking, and sometimes kicking" (controlling territory); courtship display; copulate; "The female may be offered food by the male during courtship" (i.e. before copulation?); "the male always built the nest" (when in sequence?) --Philcha (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked the sequence a bit, but it's unclear when the male builds the nest since it's only just been discovered that he does so <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The bleeding edge of zoology ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Breeding": "The nest is typically in grassland, ... the later-developing grasses further up a hill" looks OK, but then "The nest, built in a scrape or hollow in the ground ..." looks slightly contradictory. --Philcha (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Tweaked to make it clear we are still hidden in the grass <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Would it better to re-structure these sentences, e.g.: first nest in a scrape among grassland, etc.; 2nd nest higher from the ground, as the grass is then longer. This is a quite tentative suggestion, as each of the sources seems to give only some pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. But if it is possible, it would avoid contradiction. --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried in the original text to convey that the nest was still on the ground "higher altitude than the first... later-developing grasses further up a hill " I've obviously failed, but I can't see how to make it clearer <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "further up a hill" makes all the difference! --Philcha (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Breeding": "Incubation is by the female only" (2nd para) but "(male) moving on when laying is almost complete" (1st para). As "The eggs hatch together after 19–20 days", how does the female avoid starvation? --Philcha (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Many birds, like pheasants and other game birds and rails, have little or no involvement in rearing the brood after copulation. Except in very cold or wet weather, the female comes off the eggs at intervals to feed herself. It's probably not possible to source this for individual species because it's normal behaviour <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I can only spell "ornithology" on good days :-( --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Breeding": Should "Nest success in undisturbed sites is high ... with lower survival in large broods" be separate para, as it's topic is mortality rates and causes? --Philcha (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Breeding": Should "The annual adult survival rate is under 30%, although some individuals may live for 5–7 years" follow "The number of live chicks hatched ..."? --Philcha (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Feeding": Would it be good to say that "The Corn Crake is omnivorous ... including grass seed and cereal grain" applies to the breeding season and / or in the northern hemisphere. --Philcha (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Added, but after first sentence, since the omnivority(?) and general nature of its invertebrate diet is the same everywhere <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Predators and parasites" looks OK. --Philcha (talk) 18:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine, thanks <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Status": At "despite its huge breeding range", "huge" looks WP:PEACOCK unless you can give a comparison, with citation(s). --Philcha (talk) 10:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I would have thought an area covering most of Eurasia could reasonably be described as "huge". "Large" seems like understatement. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't "from Ireland all the way to central Siberia" just before "estimated at 12,400,000 km2" be concise and resolve the vagueness of "huge". --Philcha (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've just removed "huge" &mdash; numbers in millions of square miles speak for themselves <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:53, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Philcha (talk) 19:49, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Status": I love the incisive inevitability of the 2nd para. You might like Gustav Holst - The Planets - Mars, the Bringer of War. --Philcha (talk) 10:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:07, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Status": I've made a few minor copyedits, see what you think. --Philcha (talk) 10:02, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * thanks for those, no problem <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:07, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll add this a little later <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:07, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, done now, what do you think? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A bit of fun for those who last the course - editors, reviewers and readers :-D --Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A bit of fun for those who last the course - editors, reviewers and readers :-D --Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Spot check in citations (apparently not done before):
 * "including a five-fold increase in Finland, and a doubling in the UK" supported by [http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/speciesfactsheet.php?id=2878 Corncrake (Crex crex) - BirdLife species factsheet
 * "The call has evolved to make a singing male's location clear, ..." supported by Amplitude spectra of Corncrake calls: what do they signalise? (doi: 10.1163/1570756041445218)
 * "... this bird was once found in suitable habitats in Eurasia everywhere between latitudes 41°N and 62°N" supported by Populations, ecology and threats to the Corncrake Crex crex in Europe
 * "... The number of live chicks hatched is more important than the weather, with lower survival in large broods" supported by Effects of weather on the survival and growth of Corncrake Crex crex chicks
 * "The widespread fluke Prosthogonimus ovatus, which lives in the oviducts of birds, has been recorded in the Corn Crake" supported by Fleas, Flukes and Cuckoos. A study of bird parasites - apparently dead URL, possibly server out of business as the message came from my ISP! Code 0--Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "as have the parasitic worm Plagiorchis elegans" supported by Helminth parasites of the Balkan green lizard, Lacerta trilineata Bedriaga 1886, from Bursa, Turkey
 * I'll resume the spot check later, poss tomorrow. --Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone else can do any further spot checking needed. --Philcha (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Check for other dead links
 * A few need accessdates, please also check for any other missing parameters. --Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Third report of the Seychelles Bird Records Committee appears to have been pulled by the site. --Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ARKive - Corncrake videos, photos and facts - Crex crex looks odd, and few citation params
 * Got a go. Please check any that are not code 200. Sorry. --Philcha (talk) 19:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed dead Rothschild and ABC urls, these are real publications, so a weblink is a bonus anyway. Removed non-essential Arkive EL. I can't see any web-only refs without an access date, and web versions of real publications don't need them. Have I missed something? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:11, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * All of "In culture" looks OK to me. --Philcha (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Lead: looks OK to me. --Philcha (talk) 15:38, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Support: I have no further comments. --Philcha (talk) 19:49, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for careful review and support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:59, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Comments from J Milburn Intended to get to reviewing this one, but forgot about it, sorry!
 * "Crex pratensis" Do you have a citation for that name?
 * I'm not sure what you are getting at, the Bechstein ref immediately follows that name <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant the authority, the author- (Linnaeus, 1758) and all that. J Milburn (talk) 14:14, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose that I could put "(Bechstein, 1803)", but since I've just said that it was created by Bechstein in 1803, that seems a bit redundant. What do you think? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:57, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I was meaning specifically in the taxobox- it just looks a little lonely without it. J Milburn (talk) 12:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC
 * The convention is that just the lowest rank gets the authority, so Linnaeus here, Bechstein on the Crex page <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:45, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough- as you can see on (for instance) Leotia lubrica, on fungal articles we typically list the authorities for the synonyms as well as for the accepted binomial. If that's not how it's done with bird articles, so be it. J Milburn (talk) 15:17, 12 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I think File:Crex crex00.jpg would be a great addition to the description section, but I see why you've chosen the current lead image (despite the fact it could be said to not be the most useful photo). If you want to have something in the culture section, you could use Bewick's picture (or, at least, the one used in his book)- I note he also includes a different Latin name, and has a long discussion, which may offer some interesting tidbits.


 * I've added Bewick image, as you suggest. I can't fit the other image in description because of the map, but moved to habitat instead <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Some more refs would be helpful in "breeding"- first and third paras give the appearance of being unsourced.
 * I normally put refs at the end of all the text to which they refer, I don't like repeating the same ref in continuous prose <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Upon Appleton House" - Poem titles should be in speech marks, not italics.
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * In the "names" section, some of the names are not capitalised (which I gather is usual for bird names) and some are in quote marks, some not.
 * I think they are all fixed now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I've not read every word, but it's looking great. It's great to have the poetry- that really adds something. J Milburn (talk) 21:21, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review and kind comments <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Comments from Kaldari:
 * The text should probably be cropped or removed from the image of the egg.
 * Well, the image is tiny anyway, so I'm reluctant to make it even smaller. At least it confirms the ID <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The images need alt tags.
 * I don't think that's a requirement now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Support Comments  on prose - was waiting for the dust to settle so Jim gets these reviews one by one rather than all-in. Reading through now. was reduced to minor quibbles I fixed myself. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:15, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review, fixes and support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  09:49, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Lead looks good according to Cryptic C62 · Talk:
 * Do we have any pictures of this critter that don't have twenty scrillion blades of grass in the way of the shot? The infobox image hardly conveys any useful information about this bird.
 * Unfortunately not. It's the nature of this species to hide in the grass., I've heard, but never seen one <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, poop. If any decent images do pop up, I'm sure you'll make good use of them. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 00:06, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "It is a medium-sized crake with ... chestnut on the wings" This phrasing just seems weird to me. I would prefer "It is a medium-sized crake with ... chestnut-colored wings".
 * It's not the whole wing, changed to chestnut markings on the wings <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "There are no subspecies, although birds become slightly paler and greyer towards the east of the breeding range." Some minor problems with the wording here. "birds" implies that this statement is true of all bird species in the breeding range, not just corn crakes. "become" implies that the coloration of an individual bird will change as it flies east across the breeding range. Here's one possible alternative: "There are no subspecies, although individuals born towards the east of the breeding range tend to be slightly paler than their western counterparts."
 * now although individuals from the east of the breeding range tend to be slightly paler than their western counterparts <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "rufous-blotched cream-coloured eggs" This is literally the funniest thing I have ever read on Wikipedia. Are you telling me that "rufous" is a real color?! (I've linked it.)
 * It's actually very common usage in bird publications, because it perfectly describes the colour of many birds, thanks for link <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "This crake is in steep decline across much of its former breeding range because modern farming practices mean that nests and birds are destroyed by mowing or harvesting before breeding is finished." This phrasing can be made much tighter: "This crake is in steep decline across much of its former breeding range because modern farming practices often destroy nests before breeding is finished."
 * That's good, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Despite its skulking nature" What does this mean? I can't tell if "skulking" is a jargon word or just an unusually illustrative verb.
 * "skulking" is often used for birds that hide in dense vegetation, but now changed to "elusive" <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I am happy to see that the lead contains information from each of the article's main sections.

That's all from me. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 00:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review and comments <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:20, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, final point addressed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Support - I would have liked to have read more about the campylobacter problem, but that's because sadly I am more interested in bacteria than birds :-) Thanks for an engaging contribution. Graham Colm (talk) 15:33, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for support, sorry no more about nasty diseases! <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  17:07, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

There's a double image in the "Status" section which is not ... ???? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 21:20, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * hmmm, after manually loading the image, now it's there (in my cache), so I don't know what caused that problem ... Sandy Georgia (Talk) 21:23, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.