Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cyclone Joy/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 09:07, 19 April 2014.

Cyclone Joy

 * Nominator(s): Hurricanehink (talk) Jason Rees (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

This article is about... Cyclone Joy that hit Queensland during December 1990 and was a part of both the 1990-91 South Pacific and Australian tropical cyclone seasons. Joy hit Queensland as a Category 4 severe tropical cyclone and caused around in damage. After researching the system and attempting to write it over the last few years, Hurricanehink wrote this article and has kindly allowed me to co-nominate this article. While both myself and Hink are Wikicup participants, we think that Joy wont be eligible for any points since it was mainly developed before the cup started.Jason Rees (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Confirming that I asked JR to co-nom, and that I don't intend it to be a cup nomination, due to it largely being done before this year. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 22:58, 23 February 2014 (UTC)


 * just an observations I see Joy also had positive effect that isnt covered, found it easily with a search of Trove Gnangarra 07:04, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:Gnangarra! It was pretty minor, but I added that and a little else from that website. My search basically confirms that the article was comprehensive, as nothing major was added, but it's still good to add little tidbits here and there. :) ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 03:31, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * happy it helped, my comment above was just an observation, not an opinion either way as to whether this article is FA ready. good luck Gnangarra 07:33, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Oppose at this time, but will happily strike once a much-needed copyedit is done: phrasings like "discharged about 18 trillion litre (4.9 trillion gallons) of discharge" and grammatical issues like "both north and south of equator" need to be resolved. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:49, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Ive asked Juliancolton to give it a copyedit.Jason Rees (talk) 16:28, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I did some minor polishing and I think it looks pretty good at this point. Nikkimaria, could you revisit? –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 02:47, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Struck, but I'm still seeing some obvious grammatical issues ("both north and south of equator"), and why are you using US English for an Australian storm? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:38, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * How is that statement grammatically incorrect? And I reached out to the Australian Wikiproject for someone to assist in Australianizing it :) ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:29, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh gosh I'm an idiot. I fixed the equator bit :P ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:33, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Newyorkadam
 * I've never reviewed a FAC before, tell me if I could do anything better (comments coming soon ) -Newyorkadam (talk) 17:19, 9 March 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam
 * " After turning to the southwest, Joy developing a well-defined eye" -> " After turning to the southwest, Joy developed a well-defined eye"
 * Fixed. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


 * 165 km/h rounds to 103 mph, not 105
 * But 165 km/h itself is rounded, so we have to round 103 to 105. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


 * wikilink salinity
 * K! ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


 * "At 0000 UTC on December 23" -> "At 00:00 UTC on December 23"
 * I disagree. As long as it's consistent within an article, it's fine. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)+
 * Actually its not fine since the MoS distinctly tells us to use semi-colans in [|MoS:Time].Jason Rees (talk) 02:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It's in line with the rest of the project though, even in the FA you wrote ;) See Cyclone Orson, Cyclone Rewa, and Cyclone Elita, by three different editors. It's just the standard we've largely adopted, and is the same that the National Hurricane Center does. I think WP:IAR applies nicely here, considering how many articles it would affect. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:35, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Except it doesnt apply here since the fix is SO EASY - get someone with access to a scripted programme to go through all of our articles and replace 0000 with 00:00. Also the project or a outside agency doesnt overrule the MoS.Jason Rees (talk) 02:42, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Easy or not, I think consistency is more important. Need more examples? See 1933 Atlantic hurricane season, Hurricane Eloise, Timeline of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, and Typhoon Gay (1989), all featured by different editors. Again, I think WP:IAR applies, as it's more important to be consistent (both with ourselves on WP as well as with official agencies, such as NHC, CPHC, NASA, BOM, and Meteo-France. Given that MOSTIME doesn't specifically deal with the colon or not for UTC, I think it's fine for us to do it this way. I'm glad you co-nominated the article with me though, Jason, as this will ensure we can work together to solve problems together for the article in the future. :) ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * After giving Hurricanehink a couple of days i spoke to him about this issue earlier and he allowed me to make the required change after a consensus was formed here.Jason Rees (talk) 03:48, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep, everything should be copacetic. Thanks for helping work things out User:Jason Rees :) ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 03:50, 16 March 2014 (UTC)


 * 165 km/h rounds to 103 mph, not 105
 * "At 0600 UTC on December 26," -> "At 06:00 UTC on December 26,"
 * Done through Meteorological history section :) -Newyorkadam (talk) 17:46, 9 March 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam
 * Thanks User:Newyorkadam! Hope you continue, and you enjoy the read. :) ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Support, with the disclaimer that I've done some editing to the page, though mostly of a cosmetic nature. Seems to be a well-researched and thorough page with info presented concisely and professionally. –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 20:52, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support another well-written article by the WP:WPTC guys. One minor quibble however "Ultimately, over 1,000 people sought higher ground,[32] staying mainly at the house of friends or relatives, or at a nearby school." Shouldnt house be homes? Thanks Secret account 17:00, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Pluralized both houses and schools, and thanks :) ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:33, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Question, is there a reason in the lede that you talk about Cairns without specifying its location, but then need to qualify the much larger city of Townsville as being in Queensland? Also, I'm not sure why when you say "A$60 million (1991 AUD)" you need to specify the year, what other year's AUD would they have been using in 1991?  In response to the comment above about Australian English, as a native speaker of that dialect I can't see any blatant Americanisms, although I haven't gone through it with a fine tooth comb.  Some examples might help the nominator?  Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:36, 31 March 2014 (UTC).
 * In response to the 1991 aud comment, i will say that both Hink and i have seen damage totals that are not in the year of the system. For example the World Bank is cited as giving a total of 18.5 mill 2000 USD, for Cyclone Sina of 1990.Jason Rees (talk) 11:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I can see how it'd make sense in that situation where it's needed to clarify things, although I'm not sure it applies here since the year quoted is the same year as the event. I don't see how a reader could get confused if it were omitted.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:54, 31 March 2014 (UTC).
 * I clarified where Cairnes was in Queensland, and added a note that all totals were in 1990 AUD. This way it's clarified in a note, not via text, so it's cleaner. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 04:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thankyou. No further questions from me.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:48, 6 April 2014 (UTC).


 * Support I'm not going to actually make any nitpicks, since I've checked on the article many times over its history and it's gradually gotten better and is completely worthy of FA status. \o/ Great one, Hink! Cloudchased (talk) 02:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Note -- Image and source reviews? Pls list requests at WT:FAC as necessary. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:58, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support I see no reason to oppose this article--12george1 (talk) 02:25, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support; I see no reasons to oppose or withhold approval, as the article looks well-sourced, comprehensive, and comprehensible throughout. Tezero (talk) 02:28, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Source review
 * Is there any way of including page numbers for the newspaper references that were abtained via Lexis Nexis?
 * Unfortunately no. I've listed everything that's in the page. They typically just say the newspaper and which news source. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Either include the "format=PDF" parameter in all the cite journal templates or none of them. At the moment [1] include the parameter, but [2] does not.
 * I added them all. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Excuse my ignorance, but where did you get the author, publisher data etc for report [3] ?
 * For Citation 3 - we are told to put those details down when using any part of IBTRACS, which im personally not a fan off.Jason Rees (talk) 22:26, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * If that's what they want then that's fine by me, was just wondering that's all. -- Shudde  talk 03:04, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hyphen->ndash in [6] ?
 * K. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * You use both "Bureau of Meteorology" and "Australian Bureau of Meteorology" -- be consistent. I prefer the latter.
 * I also prefer Australian Bureau of Meteorology and have moved the publishers to be ABOM.Jason Rees (talk) 22:26, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ref [1] is still not fixed. -- Shudde  talk 03:04, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Fixed. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Reference titles either capitalise or don't -- maybe a consistent style should be used.
 * Sorry, could you clarify on this? ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * For example [10] says "Qld braces for cyclone Joy", [11] says "North Braced for the Floods of Joy" -- Shudde  talk 02:51, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The newspaper articles accessed via trove should include page numbers -- adds to verifiability.
 * Added. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Using Government of Australia as the publisher for [22] is probably a little vague, looks like Geoscience Australia to me
 * Ah, that works too. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Same with [30] -- looks like Queensland Department of Main Roads
 * No prob. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * [39] does not have a publisher
 * Added. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Journal articles do not include their doi. This would be good, but is not a requirement (I'd recommend it though).
 * I have no idea how to find the DOI for the three journal articles in the article. None of them have it on their page. The first one does have an ISSN number, so I added that. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:11, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've found one, but have not tried to track down others. Doi's will not be in the original for older articles, but most journals have retrospectively added them. I'll leave you to dig for the others, and will strike the comment, but I think it'd be a valuable thing to do. -- Shudde  talk 03:02, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

All the sources looks reliable to me, however spot checks not done. -- Shudde  talk 11:22, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 07:28, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.