Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/D. Djajakusuma/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose at 18:28, May 14, 2014 06:51, 17 May 2014.

D. Djajakusuma

 * Nominator(s): — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:32, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

This article is about a director who never forgot the theatre, and ultimately returned to it and saved at least one traditional art form. Our article on Djajakusuma (again, as with my previous FACs, the most detailed on the subject in English) was mostly written in 2012. During my trip to Jakarta in December I found a copy of his biography, purchased it... and left it on my bookshelf for three months. I've finally worked it in, and now our article is ready for prime time. This has had a GAC by Grapple X and a very detailed PR by Sarastro1, SchroCat, Tim riley, and Wehwalt, and it should be a relatively easy review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:32, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Support Had my say at the PR. Well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:04, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support I was a fellow traveller at PR and had my concerns dealt with there. A further read through shows further strengthening and improvement. - SchroCat (talk) 05:57, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for all of your help. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:07, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support: I was another PR chap, had my say there and am more than happy to support. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:31, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Cassianto

Sorry I missed the peer review, I will spend the day going through the article today and post here shortly. What with the excellent reviewers you have had so far, I doubt there will be much left for me, but I will start reading nevertheless.


 * "Djajakusuma was the fifth child of six born to the couple, who lived comfortably off Djojokoesomo's salary as a government official."
 * "Djajakusuma decided to go into the performance arts." -- Do we know which art at this stage?
 * Source isn't clear if it was modern stage plays or a more traditional form. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:00, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * "While with the Centre..." -- Not sure on this, but is it incorrect to capitalise "centre" if the full name is not given?
 * I think it is similar to Army, as used in Sudirman (i.e. shorthand for a proper name). That being said, adding "Cultural" isn't a big deal. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:00, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

That's all. Implement or disregard at your discretion, I guessed my musings would be short. A credit to you Crisco! Cassianto talk 19:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * "This was followed by Harimau Tjampa (Tiger from Tjampa) in 1953, which followed..." Followed follows followed in close succession.
 * "Djajakusuma spent a year from 1956 to 1957..." I feel we can lose "1957" as most would genrally know when a year would finish from 1956.
 * "After being rushed to Cikini General Hospital, he was declared dead of a stroke..." -- That's a very good hospital if they attributed the death to a stroke when he arrived! Usually, a stroke is found out as a result of an autopsy.
 * Thanks for reviewing. Done except where I've commented. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:00, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Support – per above resolved comments. Cassianto talk  02:45, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Support – Another of the peer reviewers, I am glad to support the promotion of this article, which seems to me to meet all the FA criteria. Tim riley (talk) 13:11, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for your help and the supports! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:56, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed and captioned. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:49, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Nikki! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:00, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Support another support seems almost superfluous, but so many good editors have been through it now that I couldn't find any nits to pick. Good work  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  11:23, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jim! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Singora

1. Is your bibliography ordered alphabetically? How many items are in the wrong place?
 * Four were out of place; that has been fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I only saw two. You're one up on me! Actually, you're two up on me! Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

2. The last item in the bibliography is an untitled article in Nasional. What is Nasional? Is (was) it a magazine?
 * Was a Yogyakarta-based newspaper. The clipping (I wouldn't call it an article) in question is essentially the photograph used in #Style and two sentences describing the context. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * OK. Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

3. Why are you not linking to (and archiving) the English language translations for the filmindonesia.or.id sources. The URLs for the English translations are not the same as the Indo originals.
 * Filmindonesia.or.id's translations are, in general, somewhat poor, and thus for the sake of reliability I prefer to use the original Indonesian. Furthermore, they do not have translations for biographical information, at least the last time I cared to check. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I do understand. But if the original succumbs to link rot, remember that the archived version (which I think is rendered in a sort of PDF format) can't be translated by, for example, Google Translate. Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? I'll have to play with it. Since most of those are, essentially, a paragraph or two, copy/pasting should work. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Played with a bit. Google is giving me the message "This page was not retrieved from its original location over a secure connection" for the archive, meaning that it won't translate because the archive is going through a third point (I think). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You may wish to check this, but I think WEBCITATION.ORG saves web pages as graphics or PDFs. In my experience, online translation services can't translate them. Singora (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

4. In the lead section, you write "most of his energies were dedicated to the promotion of traditional art forms and the teaching of cinematography". Why not just say "most of his energies were dedicated to promoting traditional art forms and teaching cinematography"? How does "the teaching of" differ from "teaching"?
 * That's a nice wording, thank you. I'll use it. I had neglected to consider simply using the verb forms. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool. Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

5. See this sentence: "Biran described him as quick to emotion when he was displeased". Does this mean that Biran, when displeased, described Djajakusuma as quick to emotion? And what does quick to emotion actually mean? Are you saying that Djajakusuma was fiery and/or volatile? Or did he give everyone a huge hug when he was pissed off?
 * Fiery, volatile, the whole nine yards. Reworked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You've written "Biran described him having a fiery temper". Shouldn't that be "Biran described him as having a fiery temper"? Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Right. Fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Good. Singora (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

6. RE: the Final years and death section.
 * 6.1. The guy collapsed and was rushed to hospital.
 * 6.2. He suffered from bouts of sudden weakness for the rest of his life.
 * 6.3. Despite his rapidly failing health, Djajakusuma remained active in the arts.
 * 6.4. In 1980 he made his last film appearance.
 * 6.5. In early 1987 Djajakusuma's doctor diagnosed him with heart disease, which led Djajakusuma to begin dieting and stop smoking, though he showed no outward signs of ill health. What do you mean "he showed no outward signs of ill health"? You've already talked about his bouts of sudden weakness and rapidly failing health. Regardless, the structure of this sentence is wrong. It should be:
 * Though outwardly healthy (despite his rapidly failing health) ....
 * he was diagnosed with ...
 * he subsequently quit .........
 * I'm assuming that the source is talking about his body not showing signs of frailty, bruising, etc, but we know what they say about "assume"... I've removed this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Better. Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

7. RE: Early life. You write "While young he enjoyed watching stage performances, such as the traditional dance form tayuban and the wayang puppetry". Do you need the definite article for wayang puppetry? Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen it written like this before.
 * I'm using "the" to keep it parallel with "the traditional dance form tayuban", which precedes it. It feels odd, to me at least, if we remove "the" but keep "puppetry". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Why not switch the word order from "such as the traditional dance form tayuban and the wayang puppetry" to such as wayang puppetry and the traditional dance form tayuban? Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That works. Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Good. Singora (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for reviewing! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, bro. I hope I haven't annoyed you too much! Singora (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

One more comment from Singora

You have the sentences "As a lecturer teaching screenwriting and the history of theatre, Djajakusuma focused on Indonesian arts. He argued that Indonesians should rely on local culture, not continuously look towards Western ones". The word ones is awful. What you're trying to say is:

1. He encouraged Indonesians to espouse local culture and spurn Western influences.

2. Always a strong advocate of Indonesian culture, he encouraged his students to embrace native art forms and not seek inspiration from Western influences.

3. Uneasy at the way in which Western culture was beginning to permeate Indonesian society, he attempted to instill in his students the belief that ......

Whatever you think, the word ones is a poor choice. Singora (talk) 15:13, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe it is grammatically correct, but I've reworked (a bit more simply: "not continuously look towards the West") — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:17, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The word ones may or may not be grammatically correct, but it looks amateurish. Your reworking is fine. Consider:
 * 1. I live in Thailand. I like Thai girls and prefer them to English ones.
 * 2. I like the national parks in Thailand and prefer them to English ones.

Support from Singora Singora (talk) 15:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments, and best of luck with your FAC (where I'll hopefully see you shortly). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:04, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Support Interesting article. Meets FA criteria.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:50, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dwaipayanc! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:18, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Query -- Crisco, can I assume everything in the filmography (including roles) is mentioned/cited in the main body? Haven't checked for myself, if you assure me on that point then that'll be fine... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:12, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That it is, kind sir. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:06, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:24, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 10:25, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.