Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/DNA repair

DNA repair
Here we go again. Please be specific and constructive in your critiques. prometheus1 07:47, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) Support - Well written, interesting, and comprehensive Chubtoad 03:35, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I hate to be a copyright stickler, but two of the three images are licensed as non-commerical, which Jimbo has specifically prohibited. Therefore, I must object. &rarr;Raul654 07:56, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, so what sort of licensing options do I have for those 2 images? prometheus1 08:02, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I object for the same reason as Raul. Copyright notices *directly* on the images also scare away non-commercial reusers, who may be ignorant of copyright law. I recommend licensing the images (hopefully with the copyright notice in them removed &mdash; the notice if necessary can be placed in the relevant Image: page) under the GFDL, which mandates credit to the author(s) of the image, but allows reuse by anyone, provided they credit the author(s). Johnleemk | Talk 08:12, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Copyright has been amended to CopyrightedFreeUseProvided - which I hope is sufficient. Is it absolutely prohibited to have the copyright notice on the image or is this just your view John? I'll remove it only if it is absolutely necessary. Please continue with other objections too. prometheus1 08:14, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it really needs to be GFDL licensed. That would retain the copyright for the author, but gives specific free use rights to others. Otherwise I would support, great material.  In addition a diagram in the lead section is always a nice addition for interest, to draw the reader in, and to quickly help explain the topic at hand. - Taxman 15:16, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * That takes care of my objection. As to tagging the image itself - to my knowledge, we don't require an un-tagged image, but we much prefer them. &rarr;Raul654 08:21, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * I withdraw my objection but am neutral on this as I very much believe that including a copyright notice directly in an image hinders free reuse. Johnleemk | Talk 09:52, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Support. I've learned a lot just by refactoring this article and reading its references. Autrijus 14:10, 2004 Aug 21 (UTC)
 * Support. I am happy with the prose now.  However, although this is not a formal objection I'll say that I am uneasy as well with the copyright tags on the images.  They don't seem appropriate for the free-sharing spirit of Wikipedia.  If I understand properly, you want to be credited for your work, and I don't really have a problem with that --- I mainly dislike the (C) symbol, which may scare off people from using the image (I don't know how the other objectors feel about this, though).  Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be to remove the (C) symbol but not your name and clearly specify that others are permitted to use it, so instead of "(C) Prometheus" you could have "by Prometheus, free use permitted" on the images? --Shibboleth 04:10, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Object. While this is a vast, vast improvement over last time it was nominated, it still requires a not-insignificant background knowledge to make sense of much of the article. I understand that this must be difficult on such a technical article, but at the same time, I think we can still do much better. Secondly, I also share concerns about the images. Ambi 12:28, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * What specifically did you have in mind to make it "much better"? It's not really possible to make an article about a topic like this intelligible to someone without at least some background, so the best that may be able to be done is highlight specific background material.  People say this all the time about technical articles, but like I said it may not be able to be done at all, but especially not without specific suggestions. - Taxman 21:22, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Ambi it would help improve the article if you could be more specific - you mentioned "much of the article" so I am hoping there are some sections which you find comprehendible in contrast to others which you do not. Once more please be specific and also take care to be fair and contextual in your appraisal - note the presently featured articles : Ackermann_function, Quantum_computer and Data_Encryption_Standard - do you think these articles also need some background? prometheus1 09:20, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I've taken a look at the articles you mention. IMO, Ackermann function would not pass FAC today. Quantum computer, on the other hand, is an excellent example. Despite being a rather technical subject, it's explained well enough that even someone like me can understand almost all of it. Data Encryption Standard is not far behind. I'm having trouble picking out exact points that I have a problem with. As I said, I think this has come a long way - and that I think it is very close to being deserving of featured article status. I just think it needs two things - a copyedit, as far as general wording goes, and further simplification, of which Quantum computer is a particularly good example to follow. Has this been through Peer Review? That might help. Ambi 10:13, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I've looked at the article once more to find regions of over-verbosity or where technical terms that need definitions have not been hyper-linked or explained in the article and I cannot find any. Can you provide an example of a section or subsection you have a problem with - there are 7 sections and 14 subsections - pick one. prometheus1 22:57, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Still have yet to hear of a specific contention Ambi. I am more than happy to listen to and act on suggestions but If you cannot provide one your objection cannot be considered fair and constructive. prometheus1 15:36, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I still think the article could do with a bit of work, but it's pretty good, and it's not fair to continue objecting when I can't provide a specific critique. So, as much I still have concerns about the article and the image licensing, I withdraw my objection.
 * Comment. I haven't finnished (re)reading through the whole article yet, but I'm leaning towards support. Technicality shoudn't be a blanket objection. As long as the lead section is generally comprehensible and there are ways to follow links out of a technical article to give you the background on jargon and concepts, that should be enough. The "England expects..." article also being considered here, contains nautical jargon which I didn't know, but with a bit of guess work and following a couple of links I could figure it out. Of course to pass FAC, technical articles still need the be the best example of technical writing on Wikipedia. -- Solipsist 16:49, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Technicality isn't a blanket objection. Quantum computer is a brilliant example of a good example on a technical subject, and as I've said, this isn't too far off that standard. Ambi 08:55, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)