Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dave Gallaher/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 00:46, 18 August 2015.

Dave Gallaher

 * Nominator(s): Shudde  talk 11:15, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

This article is about Dave Gallaher, the Irish-born captain of the first New Zealand national rugby union team to tour the British Isles and France. He was subjected to considerable criticism during the tour for what the British press considered unsportsmanlike play. Prior to playing international rugby he served in the Second Boer War, and later served in France during the First World War where he was killed at Passchendaele. Shudde talk 11:15, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Image review
 * Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
 * File:Dave_Gallaher.jpg: per the tag, you'll need to indicate what steps you've taken to try to establish the author's identity. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:17, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I have done what I can to identify the photographer, and have fixed that caption. -- Shudde  talk 05:20, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Only the lede image has alt text - these should be fixed. Also fixed a few citation links using Checklinks but 1 is dead. ww2censor (talk) 10:22, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. All images have alt text and the deadlink tag you've added is not a deadlink for me ! --  Shudde  talk 11:24, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Very strange. I was using Maxthon and the alts did not show up in edit mode, so apologies, scrub that. I'll have to see if that is a brwoser issue. Now the "dead link" connects for me too so maybe it was just a temporary server issue; forget that comment too. Thanks for pointing that out. ww2censor (talk) 11:38, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * And now when I use checklinks, the link to and even clicking on your direct link above, it gives an error message "Backend not available", so I don't know what is happening there. You may want to keep an eye on it. ww2censor (talk) 11:43, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'm not sure what is going on. Both and  work for me. But I've removed the deadlink tag and added an archiveurl to wayback machine just in case. If anyone else has any problems getting either of those pages it'd be good to know. --  Shudde  talk 11:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Thoughts from Cliftonian
Support—after reading through this a few times I am happy to support it for FA status. Thank you, Shudde, for this fine article. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  00:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Capped resolved above. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  23:38, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for your support and the useful comments and edits. -- Shudde  talk 00:31, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Nice picture of the reception back in NZ. Perhaps note in the caption where in the photo the team is?
 * It's in a place called Philson's Square. Problem is I don't think it exists anymore, which is why I never thought to include it in the caption.
 * No, I mean where in the photograph are they? On the dais in the centre? —  Cliftonian   (talk)  23:38, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah sorry. I misunderstood. I know that Richard Seddon (the PM) was on the dais, so I assume that the team is there with him. The caption doesn't specify . I could add that Richard Seddon is addressing the crowd? -- Shudde  talk 00:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, why not. —  Cliftonian   (talk)  00:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * A pleasure. Cheers, —  Cliftonian   (talk)  00:32, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Resolute

 * Support. I was involved in the peer review of this article as well, and it has continually improved. I'm happy to support at this point. Resolute 14:17, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Comments by Lingzhi
I'm happy with the changes. I can see why you introduced him in that way, but I'd rather make explicit why he was inducted into those Halls of Fame nice and early, rather than say he was honoured for something and then state what that something was. Anyway I'm comfortable with how it reads now. -- Shudde  talk 07:29, 30 July 2015 (UTC) Hey. Is there any chance that over the next couple of days you'll have the opportunity to give the article another look? Still waiting on a source check anyway so not urgent. -- Shudde  talk 05:32, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Body text needs nbsp between the dd and mm of ddmmyyyy&bull; Lingzhi&diams;(talk) 07:07, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I see you've done some of this. I'll go through again and see if any have been missed. -- Shudde  talk 03:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In my opinion the lead goes into excessive detail.&bull; Lingzhi&diams;(talk) 07:21, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The punctuation of the sentence that begins with "Since the selection" (mixed dashes and commas) is a bit difficult to parse&bull; Lingzhi&diams;(talk) 07:39, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I think this has been addressed. -- Shudde  talk 03:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Please explain why being "unsuitably dressed" was important.&bull; Lingzhi&diams;(talk) 08:01, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Clarified. -- Shudde  talk 03:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In direct quotes that are full sentences, the period goes inside the quotation marks."&bull; Lingzhi&diams;(talk) 08:20, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I was aware of this as I added the quotes. Hopefully I didn't make any errors so I'll go through and double check. -- Shudde  talk 03:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I double checked them all and corrected where necessary. -- Shudde  talk 08:05, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I know nothing about rugby, but it seems that their training and strategies had as much or more to do with their success as anything else...but this point is not strongly developed, and their innovations were not detailed. Am I wrong in these perceptions?&bull; Lingzhi&diams;(talk) 08:20, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. I'll deal with the lead in the next couple of hours. Regarding your last comment. There are many factors that contributed to their success. The Original All Blacks goes into some detail (but it's not comprehensive). I tried not to go into excessive detail regarding tangential elements of the tour, and instead attempted to focus on Gallaher's role and experiences. It's a hard balance to achieve, and maybe I've swung the pendulum too far in one direction. If the article has given the impression that Gallaher's leadership was the main, or sole reason for their success, then I'm going to need to clarify that. It was important, but there were other important factors as well. What is the impression you got? Thanks for your comments. Hope to have them all address in the next 24 hours. -- Shudde  talk 03:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I have added a link at the beginning of the Aftermath and impact section that will hopefully direct readers to a place where there is more information on this kind of thing. -- Shudde  talk 08:06, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm now reasonably satisfied with the changes I have made (diff). I've trimmed down the lead and added enough to hopefully satisfy you regarding why the All Blacks were so successful on their 1905–06 tour. Shudde  talk 06:05, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I have free time only in spurts. Haven't looked at all your changes yet (sorry!), but please see the article's talk page for a first stab at a Lead section. You are NOT required to adopt my suggestions; don't feel intimidated just because this is a FAC and I am reviewing it. Plus please do tweak my suggested Lead at will; I was in a rush when I put it together. &bull; Lingzhi &diams; (talk) 07:09, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've rewritten the lead using your suggestion. I've made a few changes and corrections. I think it's important to open with the fact he captained the Originals -- many people would only know that about him (and that he died in the First World War). Anyway give it a read and let me know what you think. -- Shudde  talk 04:40, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I chenged your version again for the sole reason that I'm trying to avoid mentioning 1905 twice.... look again and see if it's OK... Additionally, when I made the changes I knew that you would revert to putting Originals first, because (I assume) you're an NZ editor and a fan, and that is what NZ fans (and maybe all rugby fans) think of first. And that's OK. But from the perspective of a non-UK, non-NZ, non-fan of rugby, "The Originals" mean exactly nothing to me, whereas being in three different Halls of Fame is notability written in flaming sky-high letters. But again, it's OK. It is not an important point. I am just explaining why I moved the Halls from the nether regions of the lead to the peak. So look at my changes again and see if they are OK. Tks. &bull; Lingzhi &diams; (talk) 06:58, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * See if compromise position of HoF mentions is OK with you. &bull; Lingzhi &diams; (talk) 07:46, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes that's fine. -- Shudde  talk 08:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * In the original quote, is there intervening text between "spoke rarely about football or his own achievements" and " I never heard a soul..."? If so then my edit is wrong, and can b corrected in a couple of different ways. But the way it was before was wrong too. If there is no text between them, my edits are OK. &bull; Lingzhi &diams; (talk) 13:31, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There is text between those two statements (the quote is found here near the bottom of the article). I've made a change. Take a look. --  Shudde  talk 02:50, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Good. I'm leaning Support but regrettably it may even take a couple of days, because I have only intermittent free time, and many irons in the fire. Sorry for the slow pace. &bull; Lingzhi &diams; (talk) 02:55, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. I'm much the same so the pace of your comments is fine by me. -- Shudde  talk 04:14, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Conditional Support If passes source review. &bull; Lingzhi &diams; (talk) 06:20, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Question
Are you going to require a source review? Should I request one? -- Shudde  talk 07:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes please. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:24, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Source review and spot check
*The publisher of the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography should be listed.
 * There are quite a few external links - do you think they all qualify under the external link guideline?
 * The publisher of the allblacks.com website should be listed (I think it is the NZRU)

Reference formatting otherwise looks all in order. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:27, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Regarding spot checks (hard as much is offline), sentences cited to the news sources are all faithful to the sources, though this one mentions the book rather than the stadium. And doesn't support material in the sentence it comes at the end of (did a sentence on the book Gallaher wrote go missing...)

Looked at 3 allblacks web refs - all looked in order (i.e. they matched up page to source)
 * Thanks for the checks. I think I've addressed everything; that link you mention it was a harv reference error. The footnote was intended to point to the Horrell article not the Jenkins one. Seems to be working fine now. Thanks again. -- Shudde  talk 23:26, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant to have the publisher as well as the name of the site, not instead of (so "allblacks.com" goes in the "work=" parameter. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Shudde  talk 02:11, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Choice bro'! all good then.....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:21, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Appreciate the time you spent doing this. -- Shudde  talk 02:34, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

-- Laser brain  (talk)  00:46, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.