Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/David Evans (RAAF officer)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 08:19, 23 July 2012.

David Evans (RAAF officer)

 * Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk) 03:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Another RAAF Chief of the Air Staff (CAS), following on from Colin Hannah and James Rowland recently. Just to be different, however, this one wasn't appointed a state governor, though he did run for political office, and he's also the first living subject I've ever nominated at FAC. The last RAAF CAS to have joined up in World War II, Evans never saw action in that conflict, but made up for it as commanding officer of Australia's Canberra bomber squadron in Vietnam. Since then he's been outspoken in his opinions of Australia's defence and peacekeeping efforts, which still makes him decent copy for the media. This was promoted to GA and MilHist A-Class last year and since then I've added material from various sources that have become available, acting on suggestions made at the A-Class review. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I've reviewed the changes made since I reviewed this for A-class. Another disclaimer: I had to use wikEdDiff on this one (available in a user's preferences tab at Special:Preferences, under "Gadgets", then "Editing"); it's necessary when there have been a lot of small changes since my A-class review and I would rather copyedit from the diff rather than the entire text. That diff can be hard to follow, so there may well be small things (punctuation, spacing, etc.) that I would usually catch that I didn't catch here. - Dank (push to talk) 12:03, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I feel better that you at least found one typo... ;-) Tks Dan! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:14, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Sources and images but no spotchecks. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't need brackets on ellipsis
 * File:FlyingOfficerDavidEvans1948.jpg: page?
 * FN18 vs 19
 * FN22, 57, 58: page notation
 * Power With Attitude or Power Plus Attitude?
 * FN46. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done -- glad to see you're paying attention, Nikki... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:11, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Comments, leaning to support: I read this through carefully and couldn't find much that obviously needed fixing, though a few small improvements may be possible.
 * As you mention in the lead that he graduated from flying school as a sergeant pilot, you ought to give the date when he received his commission.
 * Fair point -- done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact that his full name is Selwyn David Evans ought to be given in the first line of the article, rather than as an aside, later on.
 * Ditto. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * On being commissioned, he became "the most junior name in the 1947 Air Force List of serving officers according to seniority." Well, he would, wouldn't he, until the next commissioning. I wonder why this fact is considered noteworthy rather than a statement of the bleedin' obvious, as we scholars say.
 * Not sure it would be that obvious to the uninitiated, and the source did deem it worth mentioning, but I don't mind excising it if it grates. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No real concern; your call. Brianboulton (talk) 16:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


 * What is a "VIP captain"? It's not an air force rank that I recognise so perhaps its function could be made more explicit.
 * Well, turn-about's fair play, this was something I found "bleedin' obvious", i.e. an aircraft captain who specialises in transporting VIPs... ;-) Seriously, I felt that the two relevant sentences in the main body provided context -- no? What if I used the phrase "VIP transport pilot" (or "captain") instead of just "VIP captain"? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * With due repect, m'lud, it isn't that obvious what the term "VIP captain" refers to, and the uninitiated might think it is a rank, a kind of superior captain. And another problem I have is that the link on Governor-General's Flight informs me that this flight was disbanded "for a second and final time on 1 October 1950". If that information is accurate, you may want to revise your wording, which says that Evans served with the flight between 1954 and 1956. Brianboulton (talk) 16:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Tweaked the relevant text along the lines I mentioned earlier. Re. the Governor-General's Flight, the two sources I've employed in Evans' article are quite clear about it being in existence during the time in question. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:59, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps you would consider these points? Brianboulton (talk) 15:39, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The citation for an Air Force Cross states that the decoration is for "an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying, though not in active operations against the enemy". Is there any evidence that Evans earned the award for any action other than doing his job?
 * I always like to provide as much info as I can on why people receive awards but unfortunately it's rare to find full citations at the Australian War Memorial or in the Gazette for AFCs at the best of times, let alone outside a war. Evans himself doesn't even mention his decorations in his autobiography. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The bit about him just missing active participation in the Korean War would be better given in chronological sequence rather than 15 years later.
 * Okay -- done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The "Vietnam War and senior command" section seems to be two unrelated sections, rather than a single one. Consider splitting. I also found the paragraphs a little dense in this section, and perhaps they could be broken up a bit, too.
 * I'd agree few or any of the paragraphs in the article are on the short side. There may also be scope for including the Vietnam War in a new section starting with his involvement in jet bombers in the late 1950s -- let me consider...  Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Evans also stood for political office..." No previous indication is given of his political stance or of any interest in political matters. It would be interesting to know if he was prevailed upon by the Liberal Party to stand as their candidate, or whether this was his own decision. Also, is there any record of other political activity after his failure to get elected in 1987?
 * All fair questions, however his run for office receives not one mention in his autobiography, which would've been the logical place to find some detail on motivations and subsequent political activity; I only found what I did by scouring news archives. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As above -- tks for taking the time to review, Brian. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding the election campaign, not sure if this is the right place to put this but here are some potentially useful sources:, . It might be worth noting that the National Party candidate was the colourful Peter Cochran, should the article go into more detail on this, and that this took place in an election where the relationship between the Coalition partners was notorioulsy fraught. Frickeg (talk) 03:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Frickeg, thanks for those. I didn't feel that this one episode in a pretty full life warranted too much detail, but happy to include say another sentence referring to the Liberal funding situation and the fact that there were two conservative candidates. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with that. Probably the Nats should be mentioned, since this was a concerted challenge to the Libs as the conservative representatives in the area, and in the event the Liberal primary vote dropped 13.9% as the Nats rose 12.6%. Frickeg (talk) 07:38, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Just added something along the lines discussed above, but open to suggestions about the final wording. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:30, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Frickeg (talk) 00:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Let me know when you've done your final passes, and I'll revisit. Brianboulton (talk) 16:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Prose comments from Crisco 1492
 * "Dorothy (Gail) Campbell" - Any particular reasons for the parentheses?
 * That's how it appears in the source. She is only referred to as Gail in the subject's autobiography, but it's not clear if this was her middle name or a nickname. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "the armistice prevented this" - Which? Is there a good link for that?
 * I don't think we have a WP article on it but there is this, which is used in the Korean War article. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "he attended RAAF Staff College, Point Cook" - Is that preferred, or is "the RAAF Staff College at Point Cook"
 * Happy to do the latter. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've done a bit of a copyedit (here). You may want to double check.
 * Looks fine, thank you. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Leaning support here, looks pretty good and in-depth. You know, I like these because they are more Oerip Soemohardjo and less Sudirman — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:48, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No prob, tks! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - Good read, interesting subject. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Tks again. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.