Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Doggystyle/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 01:23, 8 June 2008.

Doggystyle
Self-nomination. I'm nominating this article because I have been working on the article for about a month now and I have made significant additions to the page. I put it through a GAN, which it passed after being put on hold, and it has also been through a Peer Review, which I have used to improve on the parts which needed a little work. I think the article now passes the FA criteria and deserves to be a FA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guerilla In Tha Mist  (talk • contribs)  21:52, May 15, 2008


 * Restart, old nom. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * Ensure references are uniform. Some are using plain text, some are using cite web, causing some of the references to say 'Accessed on' and some to say 'Retrieved on'.
 * "I retains the" &rarr; "It retains the"
 * U.S. &rarr; United States — I would prefer this, especially at least once before using the acronym.
 * "as well as Rolling Stones "Essential Recordings of the 90s"." Looks really odd when the 's' is not linked together; it should also be Rolling Stone's
 * "contributions on Dre's The Chronic." &rarr; full name on first occurrence, so 'Dr. Dre'.
 * "hip". [1][7]" &rarr; Extra space?
 * "won't kill"[9]" — missing a period?

There are probably more; these are some comments on only the first section of the article. Gary King ( talk ) 00:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Some are already clean-up. --Efe (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahm, who is Phillip Woldermarian? He should be identified. --Efe (talk) 01:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think all of those things have been taken care of. To do with Phillip Woldermarian, he was a member of a rival gang who was murdered. - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 18:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Woldermarian must be identified there. Reading that part alone will leave us hanging. --Efe (talk) 03:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * inconsistent "Dr. Dre" and "Dre". It should be the former.
 * Time is identified as magazine. How about NME and Rolling Stone? Please identify also The New York Times, and many more. --Efe (talk) 01:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There are lots of subsections that are only occupied by a single paragraph. Maybe we can merge them? --Efe (talk) 02:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've used "Dr. Dre" throughout and added "magazine" to the publications that needed it. What sections do you think would be better merged together ? - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 18:32, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That subsections with only one paragraph. If its possible, you can merge them. --Efe (talk) 03:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * What makes http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/061024/A896.htm a reliable source? Looking at this site, I'm not seeing it supporting statments like "The record is regarded by many critics to be one of the most significant albums of the 1990s, and one of the most important hip hop albums released to date." or "Doggystyle is viewed by many critics and fans as a "hip hop classic" and is included in The Source magazine's 100 Best Rap Albums, as well as Rolling Stone magazine's list of Essential Recordings of the 90s."
 * The website accumulates the various "Best Ever" accolades bestowed on a song/album by different publications. indopug (talk) 16:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering that the album was included in The Essential Recordings of the 90s, Top 200 Albums of All time and The 90s Top 100 Essential Albums, I think that supports the view that "The record is regarded by many critics to be one of the most significant albums of the 1990s" and since it was included in the 10 Essential Hip-Hop Albums, Hip Hop's 25 Greatest Albums by Year 1980-98 and The 100 Best Rap Albums, I think that supports that the album was "one of the most important hip hop albums released to date". Also, basically the whole 'Critical Reception' section supports "Doggystyle is viewed by many critics and fans as a "hip hop classic". - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 18:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What makes http://www.dubcnn.com/interviews/snoopdogg06/part4/ a reliable source?
 * Or http://www.hiphopdx.com/?
 * Or http://www.everyhit.com?
 * Otherwise sources look okay, and links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Like Spellcast said before, DubCNN is ok because they did an interview with Snoop who explained about the album. HipHopDX is used for an interview. EveryHit seems reliable, but I'll remove it and the information extracted from it if other users believe it untrustworthy. - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 18:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just because it is an interview, doesn't mean it's reliable. We need to be sure that they transcribed the interview correctly, didn't introduce bias by not putting something in that he said, things like that. Generally, the discussion on everyhit.com hasn't concluded that it's reliable, but it hasn't concluded it's unreliable. It looks unreliable to me, but that's my opinion. I'll let others decide on that. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose. There are still serious problems with prose, and also some of the claims made.  Take the following almost random couple of sentences:


 * The album is considered as one of the first G-funk albums which many rappers duplicated in later years.[1]


 * Black culture


 * Doggystyle has considerably affected African American culture. Its influence on gangsta rap has lowered the status of women in black society.[20][14][41] Some publications have held the rap genre responsible for a number problems


 * The grammar of the first sentence is all over the place.
 * The claim contained in the second couple of sentences are far too ambitious, and completely unsupported by at least two of the three references cited (the third, I can't access).
 * The final sentence is missing a word.

I tried to do some copy-editing, but really the prose is a long, long way off. Here's another example: "This has been attained through the ability to communicate free of censorship, which has allowed hip hop culture to become a dominant style and ethos throughout the world." Not a good sentence.

As a whole, the article has a way to go. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 06:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I copyedited this yesterday (fixed redundancy, incorrect word choices, and other prose issues). However, this is still not ready. Please format all the references using cite news and cite web (or alternatively, use Citation solely). In addition, there are various parts of the article which represent ambiguity which I was not able to solve. I share the concerns of Jbmurray. The most problematic section is "Black culture" which continually says "This..." after sentences, and "It has also...". Please state who you're quoting and be specific to avoid confusion to the reader. Avoid usage of "This" to begin a sentence - restate what is being referred to. — Wackymacs ( talk  ~  edits ) 07:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tried to fix the 'Black culture' section, but it may need another copy-edit. Does an article have to use a citation template ? because I have just used plain text in the references throughout ? - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 19:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * See both WikiProject League of Copyeditors/Members and Peer review/volunteers for lists of copyeditors. See WP:CITE regarding the citation issue. — Wackymacs ( talk  ~  edits ) 19:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you don't have to use any templates; just be consistent throughout. indopug (talk) 19:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but at the moment there are already usages of Cite web in the article, from what I last saw. — Wackymacs ( talk  ~  edits ) 21:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The article now uses plain text in references throughout. - Guerilla In Tha Mist (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Support. I supported the previous nomination, and I still feel the same way. Well written, excellent references. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 22:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC))


 * Oppose. Prose is not of required standard; from lead alone:
 * "Released by the album's producer Dr. Dre's record label Death Row" - the use of two possessive apostrophes makes it hard to parse.
 * "while some of its musical stylizations" - "while" isn't accurate; "and" would suffice. It is not very clear about how the two albums are related.
 * "Snoop Dogg was arrested in connection with Phillip Woldermarian's death; a charge he was not acquitted of until 1996." - I'm no expert, but I don't think being arrested in connection with a death is a "charge" from which you can be acquitted. And the phrasing "not acquitted of until..." seems to convey an odd emphasis - surely "he was acquitted in 1996" would be more neutral and clear.
 * "one of the most" is repeated in the first sentence of the second paragraph, which would be better to avoid.
 * "Both" at the start of the next sentence is redundant; "introduced" should be "introduce"; "bring" should be "bringing". Using "West Coast hip hop" so close to "1990s hip hop" is jarring; can it be avoided?
 * "by 2003 it has sold seven million" - should be "had sold", year and number of sales both seem pretty arbitrary
 * "It was the fastest-selling hip hop recording in the U.S., only surpassed by..." - obviously ridiculous.
 * Article needs a lot of work. Trebor (talk) 00:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose—Just like my recent declaration at the previous nom page. TONY   (talk)  01:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.