Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Don't Speak/archive1

Don't Speak
An article that originally took a lot of time to work on &mdash; although the English was not perfect and the image of the CD single cover was a bit blurry, those problems are now a thing of the past. This article has been nominated for featured article because it is rare to see a song actually on the front page of Wikipedia. Other reasons include the time taken to work on the article, the information and the references. I hope you agree with me. The final choice is up to you. DrippingInk 21:26, September 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * Support. I like the article. It explains the success of "Don't Speak" throughly from start to finish. Good references, and much better job on this article than the Spice Girls. That's a different story though. Excellent job. Winnermario 22:07, September 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * Send to peer review. Needs a lot more work. See Yesterday (song) for an example of a featured article about a song. --Michael Snow 22:06, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Refer to peer review, lead is ok in my opinion, but sections are too short. As above, compare to Yesterday (song). Phoenix2 22:47, September 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * Send to peer review. There are major problems. I'm sure it's not comprehensive.  It doesn't explain the lead-up to the song very well, for example, and there are oddities throughout (like the calling the men in the video "pathetic" - what's pathetic about them? Or that "The road was not straight" line, which is not encyclopedic in tone).  It's a good start, but it needs work to be featured. Tuf-Kat 22:48, September 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose for now, needs some more info. But I am glad to see that blurry single cover was fixed. Everyking 23:06, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your opinions. 64.231.176.176 00:49, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The above anon. must have been drunk writing that line. What does it have to do with the article status? Actually, I would gladly help improve this article since "Don't Speak" is one of my favourite songs. Winnermario 00:54, September 7, 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I remember this. The first single of 1997 to spend more than a week at the top of the charts in the UK. I think it knocked Orbital's Satan off the top spot. It would probably have been a monster hit if the record company had released it later on in the year, but they snuck it out in the January graveyard because the group was unknown. Still, though, I have to oppose. The article is fairly good as far as it goes, but it's just too short. And the reason the article is too short is because there isn't enough to write about Don't Speak without resorting to padding of the "in Denmark, the single entered the chart on (date) before climbing to (position) on (date) and dropping to (position) a week later before leaving the chart altogether on (date)" variety. There's not enough meat to make a meal out of it. Although far from non-notable, the song just isn't-notable-enough; very few pop songs are worth more than a bare summary of dates, chart positions and personnel, especially as the 1980s and 1990s and 2000s has seen pop music - actual pop music singles, individual songs, rather than the phenomenon of pop stars - become such a trivial, tangental part of popular culture. You could write a lengthy article about, say, Do They Know It's Christmas or We Didn't Start the Fire or possibly even Men at Work's Down Under, but not this. The song is not about anything more than a lost love, it didn't play any part in a big cultural movement. And it doesn't really encapsulate 1997 or the late 1990s in any way. Unlike, for example, In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins, you can't write about how it has come to be an aural metaphor for its time period, either through association with popular television or literally because the production techniques were widely imitated. The guitar solo is pleasant. I'm petering out. -Ashley Pomeroy 16:59, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * A) I believe you can deal with music-related topics without taking jabs at me. B) This song was one of the biggest hits of the '90s in the U.S., and if you feel it should not have an article, go ahead and put it on VfD, where I'm sure the result would be a very decisive keep. Everyking 20:25, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The article looks like it needs TONS of work. Like this statement


 * "...the song is generally thought of as a number one hit in No Doubt's home country, this being demonstrated through its success on the Billboard Hot 100 Airplay, where it held the zenith position for sixteen consecutive weeks...."

No, it's not generally thought of as that here. Most people don't consider the Hot 100 Airplay to be indicative of charts, only the actual Hot 100 itself. The charts are also not placed in their correct hieracy. Why is Adult Top 40 listed TWICE?! There is no need to list a chart position twice just because it crossed over two years. Pick a year and list its peak OmegaWikipedia 18:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't agree with you. If it was a number one during two years, there is no reason that it cannot be listed twice. Your arguement is not very effective, I must say.


 * Huh? Peaks should be listed. Anyway, I hope no one gets offended, but the article looked a bit messy, so I gave it a facelift. OmegaWikipedia 00:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Everyking is right, this was one of the biggest songs of the 1990s, and even if it's only about bittersweet heartbreak (aren't the majority of songs about that these days?), it had depth and structure. Love will always be the strongest thing in the world, and songs about love (or this being the reverse) are just as notable as any other topic out there.


 * A heartbreak is a story to tell. So are all those other mentionables above. Winnermario 22:07, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. Just not enough information under each of the sections. The beginnings to the tables are not enough. This thing's got a loooooooooong way to go yet; it just needs much more writing. --Matt Yeager 00:11, September 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose, for an article on a song it is notably missing any description of the lyrics or the music (melody, cords etc), it also makes some pretty big claims that aren't supported, for example how did a notably un-ska song start the ska revivial of the mid 90s?--nixie 05:58, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, most of your comments are acceptable. This song will be worked on immediately. DrippingInk 20:08, September 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Repetitious, writing needs much improvement, lack of consistency in spelling (eg: break-up, breakup), seems too short, unsupported claims, and I second the question of how a totally un-ska song led to a ska revival.  Exploding Boy 06:45, September 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * They were an overall ska band, you idiot. 64.231.163.4 20:50, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh really?? Exploding Boy 23:41, September 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't want to seem like I'm attacking you, Exploding Boy, but they were an overall ska/rock group. Winnermario 00:17, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Yes. I know that. But it really wasn't clear in the article. Exploding Boy 15:29, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Oppose—Writing not good enough. Tony 04:54, 10 September 2005 (UTC)