Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Early history of Gowa and Talloq/archive2

Early history of Gowa and Talloq

 * Nominator(s): HaEr48 (talk) and Masjawad99 (talk) 07:12, 18 June 2019 (UTC) 

This article is about the early history of Gowa and Talloq, a pair of kingdoms which were to be one of strongest powers in pre-colonial Indonesia. The article was initially written and passed to GA by, but he hasn't been active since. Recently, and myself tried to expand and improve it further. We nominated it for FA but after a few responses (all responded to and none seems negative) it was closed for inactivity (see archive1). Hopefully we'll be able to get more feedback now. HaEr48 (talk) 07:12, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Comments from Mimihitam
That's it for now. I would like to thank you in advance. Mimihitam (talk) 09:00, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the scope of "Early history of Gowa and Talloq" would have to be defined more clearly in the beginning of the article rather than in the "Aftermath". Who made the periodisation of early, middle, or late history of Gowa and Talloq? What separates the early period from latter periods? Is it because it was a pre-Islamic period, or is it because it was the time when Gowa was rising significantly? It would be helpful if you could clarify this in the article.
 * Clarified the lead paragraphs to include who introduced the periodization and what distinguished the next period. HaEr48 (talk) 05:33, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Since Gowa would be Islamised after this period, could you perhaps clarify the (animistic?) belief that they had during this "early period"? Maybe it could be described in the "Background" section.
 * Did you find any good source that describe the pre-Islamic belief of the Makassarese? HaEr48 (talk) 05:33, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I vaguely remember reading about this topic in one of the cited sources, but can't find it after looking out. The closest thing is the scattered information in the Pelras (1985/94) article, Pelras (1996/97) book (which deals more with the Bugis than the Makassar), Reid (2000), etc. Dunno about Indonesian sources, though.  Masjawad99  💬 08:36, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I found this, if you haven't read it. Perhaps not the best source for the historic non-Islamic belief of the inhabitants of Gowa and Tallo, but it may be useful.  Masjawad99  💬 14:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "the veneration of the divine origins of nobility and the influential role of the bissu priesthood remained powerful obstacles for Islamization" --> isn't the bissu part of the Bugis culture?
 * Bissu also existed in pre-Islamic Makassar society according to the source cited (btw, I fixed the pages, it's pp. 117-119, not pp. 142-144). Or at least a similar concept; Ahmad Sewang (2005, pp. 152, 176) lists daeng ta alakaya as a Makassarese synonym for bissu (but even the term bissu is unmarked, which means that it also exists in the Makassarese language).  Masjawad99  💬 07:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Re page number, I think the original author (User:Karaeng Matoaya) uses the 1994 revision of the Pelras article as the source for page number. This explains why many of them were out of range in the 1985 version (but in range for the 1994 version). I checked a few citation and they checked out. See my edit in . HaEr48 (talk) 05:33, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I feel like "with the king's power felt from Minahasa to Selayar" needs to be elaborated further. In the body, it is written that "Gowa was thus able to vanquish a staggering number of polities throughout the island of Sulawesi, from the northern Minahasa Peninsula to Selayar Island off the southern coast." The word "vanquish" implies that Gowa once conquered Minahasa and Selayar, which might not be accurate based on the sources.
 * The cited source (Bulbeck 1992 Figure 4-4) does include Selayar and Toli-Toli in the Minahasa peninsula in "Places defeated by Tunipalangga", so those statements seem accurate. HaEr48 (talk) 05:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I heard that the Gowa managed to control Sumbawa at some point. Was it during this early period?
 * This was in the later period, during the reign of Karaeng Matoaya, and perhaps after his conversion to Islam.  Masjawad99  💬 07:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

@ I also have a question pertaining to this image: File:South Sulawesi between Gowa and the Tellumpocco.png. Could you explain to me the darker blue area that are located between Wajoq, Ajatappareng, and Soppeng? Mimihitam (talk) 09:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 * They are Lake Tempe and Lake Sidenreng. Yes, the color choice is quite unfortunate (the Gowa-Talloq's color is too similar IMO). I might remake the picture, but it would take some time.  Masjawad99  💬 22:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I've finished reviewing this article and I support the nomination Mimihitam (talk) 13:20, 5 July 2019 (UTC)


 * pinging potential reviewers (sorry for bothering but this FAC needs more attention). HaEr48 (talk) 17:02, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm on pretty shaky ground with this subject, but I'll return if it gets some more qualified opinions. FunkMonk (talk) 13:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Support by Gog the Mild
I'll have a look at this, but it may take two or three days. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:44, 21 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Note a: "or the apostrophe" "the" → 'an'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "by which wet rice cultivation intensified rapidly" "intensified" → 'increased'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The lead is over detailed. Could it be trimmed back to a more summary style.
 * Will trim it soon. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Trimmed it a little bit. What do you think now? By the way according to MOS:LEADLENGTH, four paragraphs is appropriate for article of >30k characters, but I agree if it's too dense it might be too intimidating. HaEr48 (talk) 13:01, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, it says "three or four", and this is not much over 30K. And the paragraphs shouldn't be too long. That said, it now reads pretty well IMO; good work.


 * "and innovation on local weaponry" → 'and innovations in local weaponry'
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "witnessed setbacks for Gowa's campaign" "for" → 'to'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The early historical period of two kingdoms" Should that be 'of the two kingdoms'?
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "in which Gowa and Talloq converted to Islam, defeated its rivals in South Sulawesi and expanded its power beyond South Sulawesi to become the most important powers in eastern Indonesia" Is "Gowa and Talloq" the name of one polity or two? If one, then "powers" → 'power'; if two, then both "its" → 'their'.
 * Made it grammatically two for now, but I'm a bit conflicted about this. This sentence was talking about the period when the two kingdoms were very unified. They each had their own royalty, but they ruled as a form of configuration and as far as foreign policy and expansions are concerned they acted as one. What do you think? HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that you need to chose a date or event from which you will consider them to be one polity. This may be arbitrary. The main thing is to be consistent within any given period. (As you weren't here.) It would probably bee worth stating within the article from which date/event you are considering them to be one. I see some parallels with England, Scotland and the United Kingdom.


 * "The early history of Gowa and Talloq witnessed significant demographic and cultural changes as well." → 'The early history of Gowa and Talloq also witnessed significant demographic and cultural changes.'
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:21, 21 July 2019 (UTC)


 * "innovations on local weaponry" "on" → 'in'
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Four main ethnic groups inhabited the Indonesian peninsula of South Sulawesi" When was this?
 * The source (written in 1997) writes in present tense, but presumably this applied to the period we were talking about as well, because as far as I know there have been no large scale ethnic migration in South Sulawesi which would have made this not true. Pinging to weigh in. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If we really want to be accurate in representing the time period I have to look for another source then. It is there merely to provide some kind of geographical and demographic overview so that people won't get confused whenever there is a mention of "a Makassarese state..." or "a Buginese kingdom..."  Masjawad99  💬 20:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree it's a good overview, and allowing users to know the difference between Makassarese, Buginese, etc. as a background for reading the rest of the article is worth it IMO. HaEr48 (talk) 13:03, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * OK.


 * "the Mandar in the northwestern coast" "in" → 'on'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "spanning from the origin of the dynasties" Delete "spanning".
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "its counterpart from Java in western Indonesia" "its" → 'their'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "giving the likelihood" → 'making it likely'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "the tradition of writing annals itself was borrowed" "itself was" → 'was itself'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "events such as births and deaths of the aristocrats" → 'events such as the births and deaths of aristocrats'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "arrival of foreign delegations" → 'the arrival of foreign delegations'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The tradition of writing annals seems to be firmly established" "to be" → 'have been'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "There is hardly any external records" "is" →'are'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "sporadic information like South Sulawesi toponyms" "like" → 'such as'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Tomé Pires" → 'Tomé Pires''. (Apostrophe)
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "from between the 16th and 17th century" Delete "between".
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "the rise of Makassar in early 17th century" → 'the rise of Makassar in the early 17th century'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "documentation by external sources" → 'did documentation by external sources'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:26, 22 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Caption: the one starting "A woman holding Salakoa... " is not grammatical. Possibly break into two sentences?
 * I am not sure, what do you mean? The full sentence reads "A woman holding Salakoa, the royal crown of Gowa." Seems fine to me.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Apologies - you are correct. I misread it.

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:22, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Caption: "It still stands to this day." Either 'It still stands' or 'It stands to this day'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "ushered in what Bulbeck and Ian Caldwell" Can we have Bulbeck's first name?
 * I removed Caldwell's first name instead, since both of them have been mentioned by their full names in the lead.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Commerce with the rest of the Archipelago increased" I am not convinced by that upper case A.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "dependent on the newly introduced plow" Do we know which type of plough it was? And/or what kind of animal (or person) drew them?
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Talloq was a maritime state from its very beginnings" Do we need "very"?
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "a Malay community in western South Sulawesi since around 1490" Suggest "since" →'from'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "had arrived in South Sulawesi as early as 1452" Delete "had".
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not doing a source review, but note that some sources are missing available publisher locations, others available ISSNs and that at least one link (Pelrass) is broken.
 * Fixed the broken link; will take a look at the other sources.  Masjawad99  💬 20:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)


 * "but these setbacks were temporary" Delete "setbacks". (It is used earlier in the sentence.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "an innovation of the next Karaeng" Lower case k. All uses of Karaeng when it is not being used as the title of a specific person should also have a lower case k.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "vanquish a staggering number of polities" "staggering" is a bit of a 'word to watch'; maybe 'large'?
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "and renew the ritual demonstration of submission" Optional: "the" → 'their'?
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Minister of the Interio" should have lower case initial letters.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Tumakkajananngang" should have a lower case t.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "However, corvee workers continued" An accent missing from corvée.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 01:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:39, 22 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Arumpone should have a lower case a.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Karaeng Talloq" should be entirely lower case except where being used as the title of a specific individual.
 * I consulted MOS:JOBTITLES and tried to update all the capitalizations of karaeng accordingly. To be honest the distinction between office and title is not very straightforward to me. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * How about this?  Masjawad99  💬 22:17, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * All of those look appropriate to me. If I do spot any more I will change them and post the diff so that you can check that you are happy. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:22, 24 July 2019 (UTC)


 * "to Islam in the 1600s decade" → 'to Islam in the first decade of the 1600s'. (Assuming that that is what is meant.)
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "halt Gowa's eastbound expansionism" "eastbound" → 'eastward'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The erstwhile Karaeng Gowa was exiled east" I am not sure what the "exiled East" bit means.
 * Remove east to avoid confusion. It simply means the place of exile is to the east from Gowa and Talloq. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "During this period, Goa and Talloq embraced Islam" a) Does "During this period" refer to the former or the latter of the periods mentioned in the previous sentence? b) "Goa" → 'Gowa'.
 * Latter. Updated to clarify.
 * "Gowa won a series of victories against their neighbors" "their" → 'her'.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Gowa's expansions covered most of Sulawesi" → 'Gowa's expansion [no's']extended to most of Sulawesi' or similar.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "as well as overseas in parts of eastern Borneo, Lombok in the Lesser Sunda Islands, as well as the Aru and Kei Islands in Maluku" It would be better if you could avoid saying "as well as" twice in the same sentence.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:42, 23 July 2019 (UTC)


 * "ruled by small chiefdoms with populations only in the hundreds" Optional: Delete "only".
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 22:03, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "well-fed by both the Jeneberang River and the monsoon rains" "well-fed" → 'well-watered'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 22:03, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The export of rice both encouraged political centralization as the elite accumulated and competed for foreign luxury goods..." Do you mean 'The export of rice encouraged political centralization as the elite both accumulated and competed for foreign luxury goods' or 'The export of rice both encouraged political centralization  as the elite competed for foreign luxury goods and...'?
 * I think the original writer intended to combine these two sentences: "the export of rice encouraged politcal centralization..." and "the export of rice led to continuous agricultural intensification and expansion..." I have split the sentence for clarity.  Masjawad99  💬 22:03, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Wet rice agriculture quickly increased in Gowa and its environs as in the rest of South Sulawesi, with large swathes of formerly unoccupied land settled and farmed." To my eye this seems to duplicate what has been stated in the previous paragraph. Delete?
 * Deleted the agriculture intensification part, but I kept the "large swathes of formerly unoccupied..." part, since it makes a better transition to the next sentence.  Masjawad99  💬 22:03, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The mobilization of the rice surplus" I don't think that "mobilisation" makes grammatical sense in this context.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬
 * "The mobilization of the rice surplus also supported foreign trade on an unprecedented scale" seems to cover much the same ground as "The export of rice both encouraged political centralization as the elite accumulated and competed for foreign luxury goods"
 * I think the original writer wanted to emphasize the role of rice as an exchange good here, so I paraphrased it a bit.  Masjawad99  💬 22:03, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Another momentous process in Gowa and Talloq's early history" Optional: "momentous" is a bit of a word to watch; consider changing?
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬
 * "the early history of the script remains shrouded in mystery" Peacocky? Perhaps 'the early history of the script remains mysterious'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬
 * "was pervasive even on a popular level" "on" → 'at'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬
 * "and other forms of continuities" → either 'and other forms of continuity' or 'and other continuities'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬
 * "authority derived from the spoken word more so than literacy" Optional: I am not sure what "so" adds. Suggest either deleting it. Also consider 'authority derived from the spoken word more than the written'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:43, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Notes:
 * In my strong opinion, Bulbeck's list is not appropriate in this article. "The table of twenty two attributes presented in Bulbeck (1992) is produced below" and the list, with a brief explanation should be moved to a new article. (Possibly titled "Secondary state".)
 * I think it is still useful to show which of the attributes of early statehood that have been achieved by Gowa in the period covered by the article. Also, what Bulbeck means by "secondary state" =/= early state.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Historian Anthony Reid argues" → 'The historian Anthony Reid argues'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "that labor for infrastructural projects were recruited by landed nobles" "were" → 'was'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "historian William Cummings" → 'the historian William Cummings'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)


 * "historian Christian Pelras" → 'the historian Christian Pelras'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "even though Wajoq was still of little importance" Delete "still".
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The former was not ruled by a single monarch like Gowa or Talloq" As this is a footnote, it may be easier on a reader to state just what "the former" is.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "a 'senior tumailalang with two 'junior'" → 'a 'senior' tumailalang with two 'junior''.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "his claim over Talloq's throne was considered illegitimate" "over" → 'on'.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "is not talked about beyond a few mentions in the Talloq Chronicle." Suggest 'is mentioned infrequently in the Talloq Chronicle.'
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 23:56, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Phew!

I will go through your changes and queries tomorrow, and then reread the whole thing. It is looking very solid to me. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

OK. Good work right through that process. Outstanding:


 * You will need to pick up the missing ISSNs and locations if you are to pass a source review - or even encourage an editor to start one. Shout if you have problems with this.
 * Added ISSN to all journals, and locations where available. HaEr48 (talk) 13:32, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I have made some copy edits. Please let me know if I have made any errors, or if you don't understand why I have made any.
 * Bulbeck. A potential 'deal breaker'. I will come back on this.

Gog the Mild (talk) 14:42, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Comments on Bulbeck

 * "the population of Makassar and its environs ... or even grew as much as tenfold". Going to the source you cite, are you quite sure that "immediate hinterland" corresponds to "Makassar and its environs"? That would not be my reading, but I have not gone through the whole source.
 * This refers to the "coastal" area in the source, which increased ~3x in the 1992 source and revised to 10x in the 1994 source. I replaced it with the precise definition used by Bulbeck (3.6 km from the coast). HaEr48 (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that the inclusion of the population density 'sea of numbers' table does not help a reader and would be much better summarised in prose; indeed, I would argue that you have already covered the key findings above them and that the tables are superfluous. If you really insist, I can grit my teeth and let this go, but I would feel that you were doing a disservice to a fine article.
 * Okay, I see what you're saying that the reader does not really need to see the table. Removed. HaEr48 (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The twenty two attributes table needs to go. (I don't even see that it needs replacing with prose: "The capability of Gowa's rulers to integrate foreign expertise with local society allowed sixteenth-century Gowa to satisfy eighteen of the twenty-two attributes offered by Bulbeck as the "more useful, specific criteria" for early statehood." seems entirely sufficient to me. If you think that further explanation is necessary, add it in prose.) I am happy to get into a more detailed debate over this, but hope that this will not be necessary. I note that you make no attempt to explain what "Caldwell's six criteria", which I think is appropriate; but that you devote more space to the 22 attributes than you do to "War against the tellumpocco and the reign of Tunipasuluq".
 * Done, same as above. HaEr48 (talk) 17:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 12:15, 28 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi guys. Thanks for taking on board my comments re Bulbeck. Rereading them I fear that I may have come across as more assertive than I meant to be. If I did, apologies. This is a splendid article, an example of Wikipedia at its best in a difficult topic area and I am happy to support. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:52, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * No apologies needed at all (at least not to me). I really appreciate your taking the time to give feedback and explaining your reasoning, especially given that it seems unattractive to most reviewers due to its rare topic area. HaEr48 (talk) 19:32, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Nah, now the article seems much better and easier to read. Thanks for all the feedback and support!  Masjawad99  💬 21:49, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Images
Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:07, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Comments by Dudley

 * The map showing the location of Gowa and Talloq could be moved up to be the lead image top right of the article.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk)
 * "Gowa and its coastal ally Talloq[a] became the first power to dominate". Surely this should be "powers".
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk)
 * You have two refs in the first paragraph and none in the rest. The usual practice is that the lead is not referenced as it summarises the referenced main text.
 * Removed the refs. One of the assertions is supported by body, and I deleted the other one about empire. HaEr48 (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "enabled by wide-ranging administrative and military reforms" "enabled" sounds awkward to me here. Maybe "as a result of"
 * Replaced by "following". HaEr48 (talk)
 * "largely unconnected to foreign technologies and ideas." Quotations should be attributed inline. Ditto "went over to Melaka, then straight eastwards to Banda. For three years he journeyed, then returned."
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 16:44, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Manuscripts in this genre are arranged chronologically, listing important events such as births and deaths of aristocrats, construction projects, the arrival of foreign delegations, natural disasters, to peculiar events such as eclipses and the passing of comets." Not wars?
 * Done (by . HaEr48 (talk)
 * I would link "toponym".
 * Replaced with "place names" which should be easier to understand.
 * "Only after the rise of Makassar" This is confusing. You have previously used "Makassar" to refer to the people, but you here seem to be referring to the town. Maybe "Only after the rise of the town of Makassar".
 * Replaced with "Gowa and Talloq" to reduce confusion between Makassar the town and Makassar the people. 16:11, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The most celebrated of his accomplishments" Obviously of Tumapaqrisiq Kallonna, but as he has not been mentioned since the middle of the previous paragraph, you need to say so.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk)
 * 'Reign of Tumapaqrisiq Kallonna' The last paragraph has apparently random comments in italics.
 * It was a formatting issue during one of the recent edits. Fixed now. HaEr48 (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "The question over the succession after Tunibatta's death was resolved" I suggest "Tunibatta's death was followed by a succession dispute which was resolved".
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Some of the conceded vassals had previously been subject to Gowa for a century." I am not clear what this means. "Some areas conceded to Boné been subject to Gowa for a century"?
 * Yes, that's what it means. But I removed the sentence, it seems unremarkable to me that area that you have to cede have been with you for a century.
 * More to follow. Dudley Miles (talk) 19:01, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "After the murder of Tunijalloq in 1590, Karaeng Matoaya, the eighteen-year-old son of Tumamenang ri Makkoayang" "After the murder" implies that it has been mentioned previously. I suggest "Tunijalloq was murdered in 1590". Also Karaeng Matoaya was presumably the brother or half-brother of Karaeng Baine, which seems a relevant way of describing him.
 * Tunijalloq's murder is mentioned in the previous paragraph ("...but was assassinated by one of his subjects in an amok attack..."). As for Karaeng Matoaya, he was indeed the half-brother of Karaeng Baine. Added the information.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Karaeng Matoaya then appointed Tunipasuluq, Tunijalloq's fifteen-year-old son" Her son or by another wife?
 * Her son. Actually this has been explained in the note [p].  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "By 1630, Gowa's expansion not only extended to most of Sulawesi, but also overseas in parts of eastern Borneo" I would say "to parts"
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "However, in the late 1660s Gowa and Talloq were defeated by the alliance of the Bugis and the Dutch East India Company." I would prefer "an alliance"
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * 'Demographic and cultural shifts' section. The first paragraph largely repeats what you have said above.
 * Deleted the first sentence for now. I still think that it could be trimmed further and merged into the next paragraph, but give me some time.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "the toponym Talloq" As above, I would link toponym.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "archaeologist F. David Bulbeck" You refer to him here as if it is the first mention of him. You should just say Bulbeck.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "new pieces of furniture were introduced" I would say "new types of furniture were introduced"
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Another notable process in Gowa and Talloq's early history was the introduction of writing" "innovation" wlould be better than "process"
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "Francis David Bulbeck" You should just say Bulbeck.
 * Done.  Masjawad99  💬 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * A first rate article. Dudley Miles (talk) 22:06, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the comments!  Masjawad99  💬 00:15, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:32, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Coordinator notes
I don't see that this has had a full source review anywhere (acknowledging some comments by ). I've requested one. -- Laser brain  (talk)  11:38, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks . Pinging as well, given that he did the source review in the first nomination, and this article did not change much source-wise since that review. I've posted in his talk page as well. HaEr48 (talk) 13:31, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Sources review
I carried out the sources review in the earlier archived nom, and gave it a clean bill of health. Little has changed this then, but there are a few minor points for attention: Could you help with some of these? Probably there are other instances in addition to what the reviewer noted. HaEr48 (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Verification: some references show wide page ranges, e.g. refs 39 (1–20); 44 (117–160); 108 (1–28); 133 (35–59). It should be possible to be more specific in identifying the precise page number which supports the cited statement.
 * I have added specific ranges for some of them, but I have no access to the other articles/books right now.  Masjawad99  💬 21:36, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll try to take a look at the others, but give me a few days. If we could find a different work that is accessible to support the same statement, that would work as well. HaEr48 (talk) 22:54, 2 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Formats
 * Ref 22 requires pp.
 * Done. HaEr48 (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Confirm ref 40 page range ("10f5")
 * Replaced this with more specific citations. HaEr48 (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

No further issues that I can see. Brianboulton (talk) 14:27, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

-- Laser brain  (talk)  11:46, 6 August 2019 (UTC)