Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Eddie Gerard/archive2

Eddie Gerard

 * Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 02:15, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

An early ice hockey player who was well known in his day but largely forgotten now, Gerard was one of the premier defenders of his era. A previous FAC failed a few months ago largely due to concerns over prose, but I've since tackled that and had it looked over at WP:GOCE. Thus I've brought it back here, and am ready to see it through. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:15, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Image review


 * Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
 * Addressed that.


 * File:Ottawa_Senators,_1914-1915.jpg: when/where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:40, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't have those details, but per the LAC site it is in the public domain. However I've removed it regardless. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:41, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done


 * Source for birthdate? Source for height and weight?


 * FN25 doesn't correspond with any of the Bibliography entries


 * Don't double publisher as author in web refs


 * Why specify province for Calgary but not Montreal?


 * Canadian Press is an agency


 * Coleman ISBN seems to correspond to a different edition


 * Quotes within newspaper titles should use single quote marks


 * NHL title should use endash. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:52, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks have addressed these. Kaiser matias (talk) 16:26, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

SC
This reads much more smoothly than last time – I appreciate the amount of work that has gone into this since it was last here. I've made some very minor MoS tweaks, and I'm leaning strongly to support at the moment, but a few points first.

(BTW, I'm British, so if I suggest something that's not right in CanEng, just let me know and I can strike it.)


 * Personal life
 * "Gerard was born February 22": this may be a CanEng thing, but "born on" seems more correct
 * The former is passable, but thinking about it that may be a more colloquial way of saying it. I added the "on" as a result.


 * "His middle name" -> "Gerard's middle name" (the last "he" was William)
 * Fixed


 * "Fame.[2])": ref outside the bracket?
 * Fixed


 * "Outside of hockey he": perhaps "Outside hockey Gerard"? (1, no need for the "of"; 2. you should say Gerard as it's the first reference to him in the paragraph)
 * Fixed


 * Post-playing
 * "the fall of 1932": Avoid WP:SEASONS. If you don't have a month, then "late 1932" would suffice
 * Done

That's it. Interesting article, although I know nothing about the sport. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 07:39, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for going through it, I do really appreciate your reviews both now and before. Especially nice to have someone unfamiliar look it over, ensures I don't add too much jargon. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:23, 25 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Support. Nice work; it reaches the FA criteria as far as I can see. - SchroCat (talk) 06:32, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Support Comments from Tim riley
This is just to reserve a seat here. I'll be back with comments a.s.a.p.  Tim riley  talk   13:46, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What I know about ice hockey would fit on quite a small piece of paper, and my comments are to be read in the light of that. The prose seems to me perfectly satisfactory, and the career details are clear and comprehensible even to a layman like me. As far as I can judge, the article is comprehensive and balanced. It is very nicely laid out, with the statistics admirably clear and easy on the eye. In the Playing style section we have refs [39][4] in that order, which you may want to reverse, though I don't press the point, and in the sentence after that we have "during his career" and "throughout his career" in quick succession. Those are the only quibbles I can come up with, and I am happy to support the promotion of this article.  Tim riley  talk   22:34, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words Tim. Hearing them from someone like yourself is high praise indeed, and that the article comes off readable to someone unfamiliar is what I strive for. I made the two fixes you suggest, and will again say thanks for looking it over, always appreciate your input. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Support Comments from The Rambling Man

 * "between 1920 and 1923. He won it again in 1922 " reads odd to me, what about "between 1920 and 1923. He also won it in 1922 "?
 * Fixed


 * "becoming the first player to win the Cup four years in a row" definitely odd because he didn't become the first player to win it four times in a row until winning it again in 1923...
 * I changed the wording, maybe that's better.


 * " ice hockey player and coach" in opening sentence vs "he served as a coach and manager" should manager feature in that opening sentence as well?
 * It should have, missed that earlier.


 * "Ottawa Rough Riders rugby football " a WP:SEAOFBLUE.
 * I moved the reference to the sport earlier, maybe that helps


 * "the Geodetic Survey" odd linking just half a formal title.
 * I linked the full thing.


 * "Left Wing/Defence" (infobox) any reason for the overcapitalisation?
 * Not really. I've left Defence at this time as it's a separate position, though.


 * "Gerard was born" don't we normally start the first line of the personal life sections like this with the subject's full name?
 * Done


 * " on February 22, 1890 in" comma after 1890.
 * Fixed


 * " future NHL players" first (and unlinked/unexpanded) mentioned of NHL, needs linking/expanding first time for non-expert readers.
 * Fixed


 * "(Joliat, Frank, and Georges would later be inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame)[2]" needs a full stop, but I never like these parenthesised sentences, they are perfect for footnotes.
 * Thanks, I was actually struggling on how to best incorporate that.


 * "Gerard was married to" any word on when this happened?
 * Unfortunately not. In this era it was not common to report those details, so to have his wife and children's names is huge as is.


 * You use "outside of hockey" and "outside hockey" in the same way, I have to say that I think "of" is entirely redundant in the first instance but understand if it might be an EngVar thing.
 * It may just be my messy grammar, as I agree and removed the extraneous "of".


 * "moving to the Geodetic Survey" same comment as before re: linking.
 * Fully linked again


 * What is "paddling"? Is it the same as kayaking?  or canoeing?
 * I'm almost certain it refers to rowing, as there's a prominent rowing club in Ottawa. But I'm hesitant to make a definitive statement without firm evidence.


 * " paddling championship.[8][2]" refs in numerical order.
 * Fixed


 * "and fisher" I take it that's an ENGVAR thing too, as I would say "angler". Or "fisherman".
 * It probably is, but "fisherman" sounds better.


 * " that year" I would include "that" in the pipe.
 * Changed to note the year, as it is a new paragraph.


 * "As Canadian football was strictly amateur at the time, as a..." as as is jarring.
 * Re-worded


 * " a Stanley Cup challenge series" WP:SEAOFBLUE again.
 * Re-worded


 * "As early as 1910 Gerard, was" peculiar punctuation placement for me, comma after 1910 rather than after Gerard.
 * Yeah, that's weird. Fixed it.


 * "over the next few years" a little loose, especially when talking about just two years, perhaps "over the following years"?
 * Done


 * "Gerard during the 1913–14 season, his first with the Ottawa Senators." this is a fragment so no full stop needed, but what does "first win" mean in this context?
 * Removed period. And don't see a "first win"?


 * " in 1916–17" -> " in the 1916–17 season".
 * Fixed


 * "February 24" make it clear this was in 1917.
 * Fixed


 * "1917–18 season" for consistency and avoiding easter eggs, include "season" in the pipe.
 * Done


 * "Gerard had 14 points" "had" seems odd to me, not "scored" or "made" or something similar? There are a couple of these.
 * Using "had" for points in hockey is common, but it isn't a definitive thing by any means, so changed it up.


 * "The following season" put "following" in the pipe.
 * Done


 * " in 1921–22"->" in the 1921–22 season".
 * Done


 * " for the following season, Gerard" put "following" in the pipe.
 * Done


 * "In 1925 Gerard " 1925 is definitely an easter egg link, no clue as to where it might take us.
 * Clarified


 * Link "expansion team", where I come from, we have no such concept.
 * Done


 * "The final against " shouldn't that be "finals" as it links to a "Finals" article?
 * It's complicated; it used to be a singular, but the media and league has slowly changed it to plural. I've gone ahead and changed the word to "series" anyways.


 * " the Rangers' coach and manager, took over, and ultimately won the game" well, the Rangers ultimately won, not just the coach/manager.
 * Clarified


 * " 223 games, with a record of 80 wins, 75 losses, and 24 ties" doesn't add up, what happened in the other 44 games?
 * I'm not sure what was going on there, but seems part of his second tenure was added there. Fixed the numbers.


 * " in 1929–30" -> " in the 1929–30 season"
 * Done


 * "During his one game with the St. Patricks during" repeat of "during" is jarring.
 * Fixed


 * " Hockey Hall of Fame.[41]" no full stop required. Same in subsequent section.
 * Fixed


 * Be consistent with linking in the Bibliography, e.g. The Gazette is linked a couple of times with unlinked instances in between.
 * Fixed


 * Ottawa Citizen appears to be linked twice as well.
 * Fixed


 * Category:Deaths from oral cancer - cancer isn't mentioned at all in the article.
 * Removed

That's all I have, mainly trivial. Let me know if anything needs further discussion, happy to re-review whenever needed. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:33, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for going through it, I really appreciate you taking the time to give it a thorough look. I've addressed everything here, but if you see anything else please let me know. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:21, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * No worries at all, glad to be of assistance. Content with the changes, more than happy with the overall article, so I've moved to support.  Good luck.  The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:45, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Support from Lee Vilenski

 * Gerard helped the Senators win the Stanley Cup three times in four years between 1920 and 1923. He won it again in 1922 as an injury replacement player with the Toronto St. Patricks, becoming the first player to win the Cup four years in a row. - I'd like this restructured. I was confused as to how the player won the cup three times between the dates, and also won it in 1922 for another club. I'd mention he won it four times in a row between 1920 and 1923, three times for the Senators, and once in 1922 for the patricks. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I've done some re-wording, so hopefully that makes it easier to understand.


 * Are the Ottawa Seconds notable as a club? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not too sure, honestly. They played in a local city league so aren't too prominent, and I can't recall anyone else notable who played there (in contrast the New Edinburghs definitely are notable, and had several big names). I've removed the link.


 * The "Links to related articles" section at the bottom seems a little weird to me, considering it is just succession boxes. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I changed the name of the collapsed boxes, but honestly can't think of a good name for it, though ideally I'd prefer it collapsed.

That's all I have right now that isn't mentioned in the above from TRM. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. I believe I answered everything here, but if you have any other comments I'll gladly welcome them. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:29, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Happy with this now, works for me. Change to Support Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:05, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

-- Laser brain  (talk)  16:58, 12 August 2019 (UTC)