Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Edgar Kain/archive1

Edgar Kain

 * Nominator(s): Zawed (talk) 09:48, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

This article is about Edgar Kain, the Royal Air Force's first flying ace of the Second World War. A New Zealander, he joined the RAF in 1936 and after his training was completed, he was sent to No. 73 Squadron which was sent to France shortly after the outbreak of war. Flying the Hawker Hurricane during the Phoney War and then the Battle of France he quickly achieved success as a fighter pilot. A sometimes reckless pilot, he was killed performing low level acrobatics over his squadron's airfield. I have taken the article through the GA process last year, and it has undergone a MilHist A-Class review earlier this year. I look forward to working with reviewers to take it to FAC. Thanks in advance to all those who stop by to leave comments and feedback. Zawed (talk) 09:48, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Image review
 * Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:57, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you Nikkimaria, I have added so all images have alt text now. Zawed (talk) 09:27, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Support from Hawkeye7
Looks good. Some minor typos:


 * "maneuvers" should be "manoeuvres"
 * "Kain was record as being killed on active service, rather than in action" -> "record" should be "recorded"

Hawkeye7  (discuss)  20:18, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support, I have fixed both those typos. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:07, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Harry

 * Within 17 days [...] nine aerial victories As a general rule, we write numbers as words above 9, but for consistency within a sentence I would change this to either "seventeen" or "9".
 * Changed to 9. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Why did he join the RAF and not the RNZAF?
 * This was queried at GA as well. The sources are not clear as to why Kain chose the RAF over the RNZAF. However, the RAF would have had superior aircraft (the RNZAF did not have fighters at the time) and also the overseas travel would have been attractive as well. At the time he joined, a recruitment campaign in the Dominions to attract flying personnel to the RAF was well underway so this would also be a pathway for young men wanting to a career in aviation. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * With the wing now re-designated as No. 67 Wing, weather conditions affected The use of with implies a connection between the re-designation and the weather
 * Rephrased, that should be better. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * but Kain had successful encounter on 23 November had a successful encounter?
 * That was a typo, fixed. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Not sure the link on "the thaw" is helpful, especially as linking it like that suggests an article on a specific thaw
 * Removed link. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * However, he promptly took ill with German measles "however" implies a contradiction but I don't see one here, just an unfortunate happenstance
 * Deleted "However". Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * few days and during his convalescence,[51] the citation you need two commas (one after the "and") or none but one doesn't work
 * Rephrased by starting a new sentence at "During". Does that work for you? Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * However, the squadron was shortly back at Rouvres "however" again
 * Deleted "However". Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The British fighters attacked, with Kain shooting down a Ju 88 this use of ", with" is ungrammatical and should be avoided in formal prose
 * Have rephrased. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Suggest putting footnotes 4 and 5 in the body, especially as the content of 4 is mentioned in the lead.
 * Have done - that fn 4 is more appropriate in the body is actually quite obvious in hindsight for as you have noted, it is mentioned in the lead. Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Nothing to trouble you too much. HJ Mitchell &#124; Penny for your thoughts? 22:23, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review, much appreciated. I have responded to your various points above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 02:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Support. HJ Mitchell &#124; Penny for your thoughts? 07:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Support from Ian
Recusing coord duties, I missed out on fully reviewing this at MilHist ACR so this is the first time I've been able to have at it. After completing my habitual copyedit I'm happy with prose, structure, detail and tone, and will take Nikki's image review as read. See below re. referencing. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:07, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Source review
Reviewed for formatting and reliability at MilHist ACR and, having checked again here, I think it meets the criteria. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:07, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support/CE Ian! Cheers, Zawed (talk) 06:53, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support by Z1720
Non-expert prose review.


 * "He was also wounded in action." A little bit random to have this without an explanation in the lede. Can this sentence be expanded to describe how this happened?
 * I've opted to remove this; it was relatively slight since he was back flying a few days afterwards so perhaps a bit trivial for the lede in hindsight. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "He started working as a clerk" -> He worked as a clerk
 * Done. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "just over seven hours' flying." I do not know the MOS of the apostrophe in this phrase, so I'm flagging it here and ask that you ensure this is the correct use of the apostrophe in "hours".
 * I've revised this to do away with the apostrophe. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "By now Kain" -> By this point, since it is not taking place "now"
 * Done. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "but this affected the runway of the aerodrome which was prone to bogging. This impacted flight operations for the next few weeks" -> but this affected the runway of the aerodrome which was prone to bogging, impacting flight operations for the next few weeks. I think this change breaks up the "this verbed" structure.
 * Done. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "Kain fought an action with" I've never heard of the phrase "fought an action". Are these the correct words?
 * To be fair, it is probably more a naval phrase. I applied it here so as to try and avoid using "encounter" repetitively. I have rephrased to refer to a dogfight, and linked that term. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * "Aviation historians Christopher Shores and Clive Williams" Is this Clive Williams (professor)?
 * I don't think so; he is a co-author of Aces High, the earliest version of which was published in 1966. The professor Clive Williams was a young serving soldier at the time, so it would seem unlikely. Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Those are my comments. Please ping when they are responded to. Z1720 (talk) 23:37, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * , thank you for taking the time to have a look at this one. I have responded to your comments above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * My comments have been addressed. I can support. Z1720 (talk) 00:49, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 14:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)