Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Edgar Towner/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 20:41, 21 July 2009.

Edgar Towner

 * Nominator(s): Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:11, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it now meets the criteria. The life and times of an Australian Victoria Cross recipient, this article has been passed as a Good Article and WikiProject Military history A-Class. I am very grateful to EyeSerene, who has just completed an excellent copyedit of the article. Any and all comments welcome! Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:11, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment. Done; thanks. Images all need alt text as per WP:ALT and WP:FACR #3. Eubulides (talk) 08:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When in the world did this requirement come in? I have done it, but as it is the first time I have had to do so I'm not sure if I have done it correctly. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You did fine, thanks, and I struck the comment. The alt= support was implemented back in October, and WP:ALT was recently modified to recommend alt text for WP:ACCESSIBILITY. Eubulides (talk) 07:48, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay, I had never heard of it until now. Thanks for your input, mate. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:52, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments - Generally good.
 * "He named the property "Valparaiso"..." Do we know why? Does it mean something in some foreign language?  Not essential to the article by any stretch of the imagination, but it piqued my curiosity.
 * I assumed it meant something along the lines of "paradise", but I haven't been able to either confirm this or identify which language it is in. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's Spanish for "Paradise Valley" according to this EyeSerene talk 08:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Geez, I re-check my sources and use Google Translate but it gives me nothing, then you turn up with this! Lol. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 09:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, took me all of 30 seconds to google "meaning of Valparaiso" :D I'm not sure it belongs in the article though (per WP:SYNTH) EyeSerene talk 09:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd have to agree. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If there's no source that mentions it in conjunction with Towner, I agree too. Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 14:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Allocated to the transport section of the 25th Battalion..." I don't know my military terminology very well, but "to allocate" seems an odd verb choice here; very impersonal. "Assigned"?
 * Is the persistent use of "during" in place of "in" (as in "During January...") Australian English? To me, it seems hideously awkward, but I could be wearing North American blinders.  I'd already changed most of them by the time this occurred to me, but I'd be happy to change them back if I'm being imperialistic.
 * Hmm, I've been pulled up on this a few times lately. I suppose it is not the best grammatically, but I tire of the consistent repetition of "in". :) However, I should steer away from this; thanks for your corrections. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "...and was allotted to the 7th Brigade's Machine Gun Company." Another verb choice that seems strange to be, like "allocated".
 * Is there more detail available about his Mentions in Despatches? The dates are nice, but I'd think that the reasons are more likely to be of interest to the general reader.
 * The quoted material just before the first mention is why he was Mentioned in Despatches the first time, but I have not been able to conclusively find a recommendation or reason why he was Mentioned the second time. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, we're all limited by our sources.
 * "...after he was unable to raise sufficient funds for livestock." To buy livestock? Feed it?  Something else?
 * To purchase livestock. Clarified. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "He spent the next three years working as a jackaroo, until he entered into a partnership on Kaloola station..." There's nothing wrong with this sentence, but I wanted to single it out for being so delightfully Australian.
 * Lol. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * References all look good.
 * I hate to do this, but File:Edgar Towner full length J03070.JPG and File:E T Towner P02939.035.JPG are both listed as having been taken c. 1918, but are tagged as having been created in Australia for public domain purposes. However, from what I can tell Towner wasn't in Australia at any point during 1918.  I'm sure these will work out to be in the public domain one way or another, but we might need to do some more digging. Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 07:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Even though they were not actually taken in Australia, the Australian public domain tag still applies as the photographs were taken by, or on the behest of, Australian Government employees (military personnel included) and are held/owned by the Australian Government. Thank you very much for the review. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've done some digging and you appear to be correct (the copyright tag on Commons should probably be changed to reflect this, as it currently claims that the work was created in Australia). The photographs appear to be in the public domain in both Australia and the U.S. Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 18:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Made a few tweaks to address some of the prose issues above. EyeSerene talk 11:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Eye! Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:32, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Support My concerns have been addressed, and I believe that this article is of featured quality. Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 18:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Support High standard of structure, detail, referencing, illustration and, not least, prose - I found the Victoria Cross subsection particularly well written. Took the liberty of tweaking a word or two; the only other suggestion I have is that "set[ing] a conspicuous example" might be rendered more simply as setting "a conspicuous example". Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:16, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review and tweaking, Ian. I don't mind either way as both work well, though. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Image review: images are verifiably in public domain. Jappalang (talk) 02:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review, mate. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:59, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Support: Overall I believe that this article meets the criteria. I have the following comments, however:
 * I would suggest tweaking this sentence: "to win the medal during the fighting around Mont St. Quentin and Péronne". Firstly I think it is better to say someone 'received' a Victoria Cross, rather than 'winning'. But that is a personal preference so is not necessarily a requirement. Possibly change it to "the third of six Australians to receive the VC for actions during the fighting around Mont St. Quentin and Peronne". Just a suggestion.
 * I absolutely agree with you; I despise the use of "win/won" in cases where a person has been decorated for their valour/leadership. The word came through during the copy-edit, and I could not come up with a suitable replacement at the time. However, I have now intergrated your wording. Thanks, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * some numbers greater than 10 are spelt when they should possibly be converted to numbers per MOSNUM
 * I think that in the few cases in the article it is okay. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * two external links show in the tool as needing to be checked, however, I have checked them and they both seem to work okay;
 * Yeah, I don't know why but the tool always seems to have a problem with links to the National Archives of Australia, even though they work fine. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, hope this helps. Good work. — AustralianRupert (talk) 03:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the review. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment: why are only the book sources listed as references? Should not all sources be listed here? Brianboulton (talk) 13:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. (To answer Brian's question, only listing books in the sources is a acceptable way to do your citations as long as each footnote contains the complete information.) Ealdgyth - Talk 15:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review and answer to the above. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.