Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Edmund Evans/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 16:04, 27 July 2010.

Edmund Evans

 * Nominator(s): Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Edmund Evans was a Victorian colour printer and wood engraver, most notable for his collaborations with Walter Crane, Randolph Caldecott and Kate Greenaway. During the course of researching illustrations for childrens literature, I noticed Evans name mentioned repeatedly but with little information associated with him beyond his printing techniques. I decided the research Evans, and the result is this article, which began as a single sentence stub. Biographical information about Evans is scarce, and I've used the sources that exist. Many thanks to those who helped me along the way. Enjoy! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment— four links to dab pages, please check the toolbox. No dead external links. Ucucha 19:40, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. They're gone. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ucucha 19:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Sources comments: Sources look excellent subject to minor fixes:- Brianboulton (talk) 16:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Footnotes
 * 19: "p. 32" needs a space
 * Same problem with fns 42, 48 and 54
 * 55: page range requires dash not hyphen
 * Sources
 * General point: retrieval dates are not considered necessary in the case of Google book links
 * Ruari McLean 1967: publisher location missing. I believe the publisher of the first edition was Clarendon Press rather than OUP but I may be wrong.
 * According to the title page it is indeed Oxford at the Clarendon Press, but the copyright page shows only Oxford University Press. Not sure which to use. The rest are fixed. Thanks for finding them. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I have been involved with the article for a while, mainly on the talk page, & have made detailed comments today there, which have all been settled, with one that I'm sure will be shortly . A very good article reaching areas to do with printing, book illustration & later 19th century children's literature that we don't cover well (unlike the 18th century & early 19th with Awadewit's stuff of course). Meets FA standards. Johnbod (talk) 21:26, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think all points have been fixed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:39, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support with a couple of (relatively minor) questions:
 * Does 'he printed the "most memorable body of illustrated books for children" in the Victorian era' refer only to Britain or to English-language works (the context isn't clear from the quote)? While I'm not sure such a poll has ever been conducted, I'd be fairly confident that any "name a memorable Victorian-period illustrated children's book" survey would produce an overwhelming majority for Struwwelpeter;
 * Thanks for the support. The second half of the quote is indicated in the text, that Walter Crane, Randolph Caldecott and Kate Greenaway could be considered "founders of the picture-book tradition in English and American children's books." I believe I used the full quotation for exactly the reason you mention - to qualify that the illustrations were for English language books. I agree,  Hoffmann's Struwwelpeter is quite memorable. . Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The "Later work and retirement" section is confusing; it has him retiring in 1892, but it still has him working in 1902 on The Tale of Peter Rabbit; did he come out of retirement for it? – iride  scent  18:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes this is confusing - the sources aren't clear when he quit his engraving work. Reading between the lines, I suspect it was a semi-retirement. Will try to tease more out of the sources, otherwise be more clear. Good points. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Slight reword to clarify for the above. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:39, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. It's great to see articles on these kinds of pioneers, now almost forgotten. Fully meets the FA criteria in my opinion. Malleus Fatuorum 17:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment You made a mistake with Under the Willows...it should be Under the Window...I'm also doing a bit of copy-editing. Great article thus far=D.Smallman12q (talk) 18:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's an embarrassing mistake! Fixed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I have one more suggestion:

The Cambridge Guide to Children's Books in English entry on picturebooks says:

In the last decades of the century Caldecott, along with Kate Greenaway and Walter Crane, helped transform the toy book into something like the modern picturebook. All three were recruited by the printer and engraver Edmund Evans, who not only had an eye for talented illustrators but also possessed the means to render their designs accurately and sensitively through the technique of wood engraving in colour.

Another quote from the book under illustration in children’s books

Edmund Evans, who had printed Richard Doyle’s pictures for William Allingham’s poem In Fairyland in a range of subtle colours in 1870, was the key figure to whom the trio of great illustrators of the end of the century, Walter Crane, Kate Greenaway  and Randolph Caldecott, owed recognition, encouragement and brilliant colour reproduction.

Given his impact, I don't really like term "collaborate" used in the beginning... I'd also like to see something about his impact on the children's books in the intro if possible. (I support the nomination besides that though=D)Smallman12q (talk) 19:43, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I've looked at several academic sites and they use the term collaboration...so thats fine.Smallman12q (talk) 20:26, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

To add more details if you like.Smallman12q (talk) 23:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't see this had been struck. I've made the change anyway. Thanks for the links to the sources. I've reworded as you suggest and integrated the sources into the article. Thanks for the comments. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * This source says that Caldecott illustrated for 8 years, but the article says from 1878 until 1883. You could also use the following sources:
 * http://www.iupui.edu/~engwft/crane.htm
 * http://www.iupui.edu/~engwft/caldecott.htm
 * http://www.iupui.edu/~engwft/greenaway.htm
 * http://www.iupui.edu/~engwft/doyle.htm
 * Good catch. The 1885 looked like 1883 - I've fixed it. According to this and to Evans (page 58) himself, Caldecott finished in 1885, so it's about seven years. Caldecott died in 1886. I'd prefer not to use these sources because they're lecture notes for a Children's Literature course. I've used the best scholarly secondary sources I can find for this article. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:29, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine...it's a 300 course from a reputable university...but we can do without them. Anyways I have few more suggestions:

For most of the early nineteenth century, colour book illustrations had meant colouring by hand, but the development of mechanical colour printing, especially by Edmund Evans, brought an immense improvement in coloured picture-books for children in the last quarter of the century.
 * Edmund had urged Randolph to have illustrations on every page...many shilling books at the time had empty pages source
 * If possible, I'd like to see this quote included from Children's literature: an illustrated history which emphasizes his impact.

Other than that...I'm done reviewing the article=D. Images are fine...and I'm okay with the removal of extra sources provided everything has at least 1 citation. Hope my comments have helped(...and weren't overkill).Smallman12q (talk) 02:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, you should have a sentence to point out what Kate, Randolph, and Walter were doing for a living prior to working with/for Edmund. p164-165 has some details
 * Added the information about blank pages - it's in Evans' book, so I used that as a source.
 * Added the information about hand coloring and his impact.
 * Added that Greenaway was designing greeting cards (it's in the source already cited); and that Caldecott was designing magazine covers (also in the source cited). The article mentions that Crane was illustrating yellow backs with Crane, so much more takes the focus off Evans onto Crane.
 * Thanks for the sources - these are helpful and will be put to good use in the articles about the individual illustrators. Also thanks for the review - the article is definitely improved. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 02:53, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support All the issues I raised have been resolved. Looks FA quality to me=D. Great work Truthkeeper!Smallman12q (talk) 12:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Image review? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 00:03, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Images are fine, I would prefer that the copyright status in both the US and the country of origin are given, thus the images can be moved to commons to benefit other language projects &  would seem appropriate in most instances. Fasach Nua (talk) 07:00, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I've updated the PD tags on the images not on Commons; have left the ones on Commons alone. Thanks for the suggestion. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I just had a run-through and did some housekeeping. The following would best be tidied up first.
 * File:Edmunds003.jpg: Was this scanned by the uploader, or was it taken from some website?
 * scanned from a book; added the source to the file.
 * File:EdmundEvans watercolor.png: point to page, not the image per WP:CITE.
 * fixed
 * File:Richard Doyle - Spurned Suitor.jpg: point to page, not the image per WP:CITE. Furthermore (especially for cases where links die), where was this image published?
 * fixed, I believe. I used the University of Florida permalink which points to the book and added the page number where the image is. I hope that's correct.
 * Otherwise like Fasach said, the copyrights would be fine. Jappalang (talk) 07:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both of you. I appreciate the speedy response! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:53, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No problems, all fine and dandy now. Jappalang (talk) 21:32, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Caldecott Fox 1883 2.png is okay, but would be better to organize the information with or such.  The image is PD in UK as well (both illustrator and engraver dead 70 years before 1996) so the  should have the "pd=yes" parameter entered, and a  recommended.  Jappalang (talk) 06:23, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've fixed the file. Added PD-old because both illustrator and engraver died more than 100 years ago. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 12:13, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.