Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elizabeth Canning/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 13:35, 10 April.

Elizabeth Canning

 * Nominator(s): Parrot of Doom 22:41, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Elizabeth Canning was an 18th-century 18-year-old maid who went missing for a month. She returned and claimed she had been abducted, the supposed perpertrators were arrested, tried, and found guilty. Some thought it all very suspicious, investigated, found some serious problems with the case, and had Canning arrested and tried for perjury. She was eventually found guilty and shipped off to what is now the US. It's all a bit of a mystery, but it was one of the most famous legal cases of 18th-century England, and I present it to you now. Parrot of Doom 22:41, 21 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments. No dab links or dead external links. Alt text looks good (no longer an FA criterion). Ucucha 22:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments: Do you think 'hayloft' needs to be wikilinked? Also, shouldn't "Background" be separated from the "History" section, even if it is very small. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 22:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hayloft isn't really a helpful article, as it doesn't mention the use of loft space in living areas (as was common at the time). I don't think it's possible to separate the background from the history section as Canning's upbringing and employment status was important to the story. Parrot of Doom 22:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:14, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Most of these comments are of minor moment, but the first really does need putting straight if this fascinating article is to be promoted to FA. – Tim riley (talk) 08:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * Houndslow (blue-linked) is in Scotland. Do you mean Hounslow? A long way from the City even so. Houndsditch is near Aldgate – is that what is meant? St Botolph's Aldgate is on the corner of Houndsditch – you mention a (red-linked) Aldgate church – which makes one suspect that "Houndsditch" and "St Botolph's Aldgate" are correct here. This is an important point in the narrative and needs to be cleared up.
 * It was Houndsditch, fixed.
 * Good. That was the only point causing me to withhold support - now given, below. Given that Houndsditch is correct, the red-link for the Aldgate church is a bit forlorn: there isn't another candidate than the blue-linked St Botolph's, so nobody will ever write a new article to turn the red-link blue. I'd remove the link, I think, or change the wording to blue-link to St B's. Tim riley (talk) 09:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Living over 200 miles away, I'm a bit hesitant to change that link.  I wonder if someone with more local knowledge might do it one day?  When in doubt... Parrot of Doom 13:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "Fortune nor Judith Natus were were…" duplication
 * Fixed
 * "fish-monger" – the OED does not list this hyphenated version of "fishmonger"
 * Fixed
 * "the The Bottle Conjuror…" duplicate word
 * Fixed
 * "the Reverend Harris" is good American usage, I believe, but is a solecism in English usage (just as one wouldn't say "the Honourable Smith" or "the Right Honourable Jones"). Either "the Reverend James Harris" or else "Mr Harris" or just "Harris" is needed here.
 * I've removed most of "The Rev..." and changed to "Rev...", with so many names I think its easier for the reader to be reminded who Harris was.
 * Hmmm. But I don't press the point. Tim riley (talk) 09:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "the Squires had very likely been travelling..." – plural of the name Squires should be Squireses shouldn't it, cf. Jones and Joneses?
 * You've got me there, I find it all quite confusing. Both sources use s's.
 * Possessive of Squires: consistency needed – at present the article has both "Squires'" and "Squires's". The latter is the conventional English form.
 * Think I've got them all now. Parrot of Doom 09:12, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. A well-written and comprehensive article, formidably referenced and very nicely set out. - Tim riley (talk) 09:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. Parrot of Doom and I have written a few articles together, but I've had nothing to do with this one, which I think is excellently written, comprehensive, and fully meets the FA criteria. Malleus Fatuorum 22:37, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments The article is in good shape, but going through this, I see some potential problems. For example, "When Canning failed to return to her lodgings at Lyon's house, he twice went looking for her at her mother's home." Who is the 'he' referring to here? There's an aunt and uncle mentioned in the previous paragraph, but it's implied they left her.
 * Edward Lyon - her employer and the owner of her lodgings. Clarified Parrot of Doom 14:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "She was forced to walk to a house, where an old woman asked if she would "go their way"." What does this mean?
 * Basically it means that they wanted her to be a prostitute. The article does mention this but I've clarified it Parrot of Doom 14:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "Canning was still extremely weak, but her supporters took the risk of moving her so she could identify her captors, and the room in which she had been held, before she died." Seems confusing. She didn't die; presumably they thought she would die.
 * I agree, I've changed it to in case she died Parrot of Doom 14:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The word "stays" is wikilinked at its second and third occurrence, but not its first.
 * Fixed. Parrot of Doom 14:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * More later. Firsfron of Ronchester  13:28, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "There, before the two kidnappers, Lucy Squires,[nb 4] and Hall, the old gypsy had assaulted Canning, before forcing her up the stairs, where she remained until she escaped." The six commas lead to a choppy, fragmented sentence. I suggest something along the lines of "There, in front of the two kidnappers, Lucy Squires,[nb 4] and Hall, the old gypsy assaulted Canning and forced her up the stairs. She remained there until she escaped."
 * We're speaking in past tense here. I can't write "in front of" because that may not have happened, so I made this change Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC) - just to add - I changed the "she remained" to "the young maidservant remained" Parrot of Doom 07:57, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can write "before the two kidnappers" you can substitute "in front of the two kidnappers"; I was hoping to avoid confusion, but am happy with how the sentence turned out.
 * Another example of fragmentation and "snakiness" (50 words): "Squires, charged with assault and theft, and Wells, with "well-knowing" what her accomplice had done, were tried on 21 February at the Session House of the Old Bailey, before the Lord Mayor of London Sir Crisp Gascoyne, a panel of other justices, and a gallery packed with interested spectators."
 * Made this change Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "said that the Squires' had visited his house..." Apostrophe here?
 * It was the Squires family that had visited his house, not Squires alone. I think the US style here would be "Squireses" but the British/US sources I've used both agree on "Squires's" for the possessive, and "Squires'" for the plural. Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not add apostrophes to make names plural. This is not an example of BrE/AmE differences. This is Grammar 101. Firsfron of Ronchester  13:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "Little Jemmy, "a poor man who cries sticks about the streets"..." What does this mean? Is this a BrE phrase, or an old euphemism for something antiquated? It sounds (to me) like he was selling sticks. Not truly a FAC objection, but please pity the poor American readers. ;)
 * No idea. One of those things, although it'd be interesting to know :)  If I come across it elsewhere I'll add a note. Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "Through January, he thought, the Squires' had very likely been travelling through Dorset..." Apostrophe here?
 * See above. Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not add apostrophes to make names plural. This is not an example of BrE/AmE differences. This is Grammar 101. Firsfron of Ronchester  13:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "Reports began to emerge, of sinister goings-on..." No comma here.
 * Well...I'll have to disagree on that one, but it isn't a big deal. Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "she was given a month's imprisonment, to be followed by seven years' transportation." This is explained in a later section, but will not make sense to readers who don't read down that far.
 * Linked. Parrot of Doom 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Firsfron of Ronchester 05:15, 10 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Support + Comment I changed one instance of Mrs --> Mrs., but then undid my own edit after I found several of these. Is this a British thing? Or a rule I'm unaware of? But otherwise +S. &bull; Ling.Nut 03:27, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No full stop in UK usage is my understanding. Parrot of Doom 07:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note, no image review, has anyone checked them, or can you scare up an image reviewer? Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 12:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.