Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Etchmiadzin Cathedral/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:55, 27 February 2016.

Etchmiadzin Cathedral

 * Nominator(s): Ե րևանցի  talk  17:30, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

This article is about the Armenia's most important church. Although Etchmiadzin is not a worldwide known structure like St. Peter's Basilica or Masjid al-Haram or Notre Dame de Paris and is architecturally not as impressive as the listed (and even by Armenian standards), it has a tremendous historic value. I first started working on this article in late 2013. I, and a few other users, have made hundreds of edits since then. It is now in a pretty good shape. Ե րևանցի talk  17:30, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - Can you provide an English translation on the image description page at Commons:File:Էջմիածնի Մայր Տաճար.jpg. It's the lead image, and as the infobox caption is not recognised as such by the image viewer, readers see Armenian script below the image when it is clicked. - hahnch e n 10:46, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Ե րևանցի talk  11:40, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Image review
 * Many images are lacking captions - why? It's not always clear what is being shown
 * -- Ե րևանցի talk  10:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Of the captions that are present, several need editing for grammar/MOS issues. Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods. Centuries used as adjectives should be hyphenated.
 * . Please let me know if there are any left that need to be corrected.-- Ե րևանցի talk  10:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * File:Etchmiadzin_with_walls.png: if this is to be hosted on Commons, it needs to be PD in Germany also; same with File:Etchmiadzin_Cathedral_cross_relief.png and File:Etchmiadzin_Cathedral_Thecla_%26_Paul.png in Austria
 * and added
 * File:Etchmiadzin_with_walls.png needs to be PD in Germany, the current tag doesn't support that. The sourcing for the two Austrian images is currently reversed, and these appear to be sketches rather than photos. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:28, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * What would be an appropriate tag for the sketches? I've added . -- Ե րևանցի  talk  08:15, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

File:Etchmiadzin_with_walls.png needs to be PD in Germany, the current tag doesn't support that. The sourcing for the two Austrian images is currently reversed, and these appear to be sketches rather than photos. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:28, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * File:Bagaran_church_plan.png needs a US PD tag. Same with File:View_of_Ararat_and_the_Monastery_of_Echmiadzin.png
 * Added to both
 * I should clarify that that tag should be added, rather than replacing the existing tags. Images on Commons need an indication of copyright status in both the US and the source country. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:28, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Better now?-- Ե րևանցի talk  10:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * File:Plan_germigny_carolingien.svg: what is the source of the data underlying this diagram?
 * Do not know. Should probably ask the uploader
 * Yes, that would be a good option, if he/she is still active. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:28, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * He does not seem to be. Should I remove the image? -- Ե րևանցի talk  20:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * File:Էջմիածնի_վանքը_(1903).jpg: based on the current tag, this would be non-free in the US, unless there is another reason why it would be free?
 * Its author died in 1941, that's 75 years ago. I corrected the tag to show this. -- Ե րևանցի talk  09:10, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * As the tag you've added indicates, this still needs a US PD tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:28, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Better now?-- Ե րևանցի talk  10:17, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * "Created" is not the same as "published" - was this published or publicly displayed before 1923? If no, a different tag will be needed. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:11, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
 * No idea when it was published/publicly displayed and there's no way to know for sure. -- Ե րևանցի  talk  07:45, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * File:Flag_of_Ejmiatsin.jpg: source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:35, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * This flag is part of the city of Vagharshapat template at the bottom of the article and can be removed if proved problematic, but I changed the link to a working one. Hope it helps. -- Ե րևանցի talk  09:10, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

comments by Johnbod

 * It's good to see such a subject being tackled, but I think this article has some way to go. Some preliminary comments, based on a quick look:
 * The architectural development of the cathedral between the 5th and 19th centuries is not described, though it seems there was a lot, nor are there dates in most captions for photos of details, except for "A relief of Gregory the Illuminator on the cathedral's western belfry (1650s)" - Is this the date of the whole of that tower? Generally the descriptions of the architecture or decorations don't seem very full or confident. For example it isn't explained (or shown in images) whether the high walls round the compound shown in early views survive.
 * The architectural development is described in detail in the History section of the article. Should it be described in the Architecture section, too?
 * Yes, the entire western belfry was built in 1653/4-1658.
 * The reason why there's not much on the walls is because I was unable to find any reliable info. All we know is that they do not survive to this day. But I can say with almost 100% certainty were destroyed in the early Soviet period (1920s-1930s), but I'll need to find source(s) to back this up. -- Ե րևանցի talk  20:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * There is only one tiny and not very helpful image of the interior, when there are several decent ones on Commons. But there are too many very similar views by artists of the exterior.
 * Will try to fix the problem asap. -- Ե րևանցի talk  20:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The influence on Western European architecture would be disputed by many if not most art historians - Josef Strzygowski tends not to be given much credence by most. There should be some coverage of contrary views.
 * What contrary views? Strzygowski's views are obviously in minority and the fact that only Armenian architecture scholars support his views is explicitly stated.-- Ե րևանցի talk  20:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The English needs minor touches (eg, don't say "the Etchmiadzin Cathedral", just "Etchmiadzin Cathedral".
 * -- Ե րևանցի talk  20:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Generally "Notable visitors" sections tend to be seen as trivia cruft. Does it really help to know that "Alain Delon (2012),[169] Spanish opera singer Montserrat Caballé (2013)" visited? I think other FAs have restricted such lists to heads of government (and maybe Prince Charles).
 * ✅ Celebrities removed. -- Ե րևանցի talk  20:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I hope to do a full review later, ideally after these points have been addressed. Johnbod (talk) 13:15, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Closing comment -- Sorry but with no activity for a month this review has stalled and I'll be archiving it shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:55, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 23:55, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.