Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy VII/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 18:14, 29 May 2017.

Final Fantasy VII

 * Nominator(s): ProtoDrake (talk) 17:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

This article is about Final Fantasy VII. The seventh overall entry in the Final Fantasy series and the first entry for the PlayStation, it is generally hailed as one of the most important and best-remembered video games in the history of the medium. This article was delisted as a Featured Article in 2008 due to quality concerns, and has since been lingering at GA level since then. With the arrival of Final Fantasy VII Remake and the 20th anniversary of Final Fantasy VII, it was suggested and decided to make a push towards bringing this article back to its former place as an FA. Along with myself, this project has been a collaborative effort with our work has included grammar work, reference maintenance, and the expansion/trimming/tidying of multiple sections. I hope they will also help bring this article through the final stages to FA status. ProtoDrake (talk) 17:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Could you add alt text to the images that are being used in the article? Click here for more information. --  MCMLXXXIX   19:29, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Comments from 1989
 * I've added alts to all images. They can be improved if needed. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:03, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Support That's all I needed to say. Good luck! By the way, if you don't add a signature, pinging won't work. --  MCMLXXXIX   20:02, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Whoops, my bad. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:03, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk)
 * "A high-definition remake is in development for the PlayStation 4.": Potentially an ASOF issue here, but I don't take a position on those.
 * "casting magical abilities": Doesn't sound right ... how can you cast an ability?
 * "planet's lifeforce": linked to Gaia hypothesis, but it's nothing like that hyphothesis. - Dank (push to talk) 23:38, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
 * "Avalanche": For this word and maybe others, sometimes you capitalize and sometimes not. I don't have a strong feeling about this if there's a clean break from one style to the other, but some reviewers will see it as a mistake, so you probably want to fix it.
 * "storyboards": A good habit to get into is to ask yourself every time you see quote marks: why the quotes? I don't know why these quote marks are here ... were they not storyboards? Were they sort of storyboards? Unless I'm missing something, the readers won't know what you mean either.
 * "While sprites proved more popular": With the staff? What about them was more popular?
 * In Reception, there's a vague tag.
 * In Reception, the logical quotation (WP:LQ) suddenly goes all to hell. Only put a comma or period inside the quote marks if it's there in the original, and if the quote is substantial; a good rule-of-thumb is that a clause (with a verb) is substantial.
 * Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. These are my edits. I learned a lot of video game history here, and it wasn't hard to follow. - Dank (push to talk) 02:50, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I've done my best with your comments, and done some further work of my own. Many thanks.
 * Looks good, though I haven't checked the LQ. - Dank (push to talk) 13:30, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Comments. Looks pretty great, no real complaints about most of the sections. That said, A few questions, mostly on the plot / characters. Notably, I see some things sourced to Ultimania, which is always a little awkward... when Ultimania explicitly lays out something vaguely hinted at in-game, it's fine, but some Ultimanias are also known for having "writer headcanon" that never actually made it into the game. My *personal* stance would be to be skeptical of including Ultimania content that isn't referenced in-game, but this is admittedly weird because FF7 has a famously erratic English translation, so maybe some of this stuff was in the Japanese version? Who knows.
 * Cetra: I'll admit I'm misty on this because the game is misty on this, but they're a "human tribe"? The game sure acts like they're aliens, or a different species, or something, but FF7 is also a game where a lot of key characters are just flat wrong in their understanding of the Cetra/Jenova/Planet backstory (Hojo, Sephiroth), so who knows.
 * Reeve: I don't think his last name (Tuesti?) is ever mentioned in-game, and if it is, it has no relevance - basically trivia. I'd say remove it.  Also, since when is he a Turk?  Maybe the Compilation retconned him to be a Turk, but he never claims to be a Turk, never orders them around, etc.  He's the Head of Urban Development who deals with all the Midgar infrastructure stuff in-game if you want to talk about his role.
 * Sephiroth's mother: I realize that you need to keep this short, and that Sephiroth *thinks* Jenova is his mother, but Sephiroth is wrong about this! Lucrecia plot is pretty minor and basically a footnote in-game, but if you're going to include it, something like "In an experiment at Nibelheim, an infant Sephiroth was infused with Jenova cells by Shinra scientists Hojo and Lucrecia, his parents."
 * "Cloud became an infantryman" - Maybe sneak in "low-ranking" in there, or some even less flattering term? He's an MP, basically a rent-a-cop on the prestige scale.
 * Localization: Is Aeris vs. Aerith really an example of a "disconnect" / mistake? It's not uncommon for localizations to entirely invent different names that aren't even close to the original, so it could easily have been an intentional choice (that was later overruled).  What did the source say on it?  SnowFire (talk) 23:55, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the shoutout about Reeve. Cetra are treated as a distinct tribe, that's true, but it's never specified that they're not just a tribe of humans. I've removed the addition about Jenova being Sephiroth's "mother", which isn't really here or there when communicating the story to series newcomers. Most of the points above are non-essential to communicating the narrative. As to Cloud, it's just the fact that he was lying to himself that's important, not exact circumstances. As to your final point, it is explicitly described as a result of a lack of adequate communication. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:18, 14 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I think the fact that Cloud had "failed" but succeeded anyway is reasonably important - that he wasn't a big fancy elite SOLDIER but a grunt. I think "infantryman" still has too much prestige / honor to a casual reader and might read as someone expected to be competent.  So my suggestion is adding "low-ranking" if you can't find a good synonym (admittedly, I can't, aside from using "MP" which is also misleading).  If you really feel it reads better without it, you can keep it, but I still don't quite like it.
 * For communication: Checking the source, I'm not really sure the current passage accurately reflects the interview. It's conflating "lack of communication between JP team and international team" with "Aeris doesn't reflect Air+Earth, but Aerith somehow does," and the 2nd part is definitely not in the interview (Honeywell randomly muses "Earith" as a possibility).  Maybe move to the "Legacy" section that some later versions changed the official  localization from Aeris->Aerith, and cut that bit from "Localization"?  SnowFire (talk) 02:59, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I've conceded on the point about Cloud. But the fact of Aerith's name shifting with later translations seems too trifling for the game's "Legacy" section, whereas the fact the original translation happened denotes how challenging the localization was. I've rephrased it slightly to better reflect the source's text. Aerith's own article is a better place for that, and does actually go into it there. --ProtoDrake (talk) 16:27, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * LGTM. Support.  The only thing I'd add is that the list of awards won / mentions on best-ever lists borders on the excessive, and for 99% of articles I'd suggest chopping the list of awards a tad or moving them to a footnote, but FF7 might be a rare case where it's mostly justified, since I'm sure lots of best-ever mentions are already being excluded.  It's still a little long, but not indefensible or anything.  SnowFire (talk) 04:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Coordinator comment: I think we still need image and source reviews, unless I've missed them. These can be requested at the top of WT:FAC. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:36, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Comments from Harizotoh9
 * Opening paragraph should have a sentence or two listing the staff who worked on it, their role, whether it was their first game, second, etc. Harizotoh9 (talk) 23:46, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Which opening paragraph? --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:05, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph in the lede. It's typical for movie articles to discuss the cast, but video game articles often neglect the cast. Also the lede and infobox should contain roughly the same information (not a hard and fast rule, more like a guideline). Also the cast and development are heavily discussed in the article, but not much in the lede. Harizotoh9 (talk) 03:13, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've done some minor expansion to mention the staff, but not in the first paragraph. Such things are not normally mentioned in the first paragraph of the lead of VG articles. How the lead is currently structured is the typical way VG article leads are structured. --ProtoDrake (talk) 05:26, 13 May 2017 (UTC)


 * My understanding that Amano did designs for FFVII, and then Nomura finalized them and produced the artwork used in promotion and in-game. At least that's my understanding. The article however, does not mention this. You can see a gallery of Amano's FF7 art here. Thus, it would seem wrong to give Nomura sole credit for the character designs of FFVII. Harizotoh9 (talk) 03:21, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Or did Amano draw Nomura's designs after Normua had made them? A little bit of clarification could help. Harizotoh9 (talk) 04:49, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Nomura created the designs first, Amano did promotional art and logo art. That's confirmed by multiple sources. --ProtoDrake (talk) 05:26, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Image review
Each image looks like it is in a pertinent section, ALT text seems good for me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:12, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * File:Final Fantasy VII Box Art.jpg: Fairly short non-free use rationale needs expansion, specially the NFCC#8 section.
 * Done my best to expand it properly.
 * File:FFVIIbattlexample.jpg: One superfluous non-free rationale, but the one for this article seems good.
 * Fixed.
 * File:Square-enix dissidia yoshinori-kitase.jpg, File:Nobuo Uematsu.jpg and File:Hironobu Sakaguchi - Tokyo Game Show 2006.jpg: Not seeing any problems.
 * File:Sasaki kojiro 2.gif: Poor source information needs fixing, and http://www.niten.org.br/abre_img.php?img=imagens/m/0/kuniyoshi4.gif&template=2 (according to Special:Undelete the source) is a broken link.
 * Don't know what to edit, and can't find a source for the image's artist or other information. Instead I replaced it with File:FFVIInomuracastdesigns.JPG, which I have expanded with appropriate rationale. If you don't think it fits, then I will remove this image as well.
 * File:FFVIIsephirothkillsaeris.png: Image fits into the article if the moment depicted has seen dedicated discussion, but the non-free rationale may merit some more fleshing out.
 * Done my best to expand the section.
 * File:FF7 background.gif: Also needs more detail in NFCC#8, especially since it's a moving GIF.
 * Done my best to expand the section.
 * File:FF7 ost main.ogg and File:One-Winged Angel sample.ogg: Wondering if both samples are needed at once. Sourced discussion is present and I think the samples are in the right place both here and in the music article.
 * Removed the "main theme" one, but left "One Winged Angel" as it seemed the one people would more instantly recognize.
 * File:Video Games Live 2009 FFVII.jpg: No issues that I can see.
 * I've done my best to address the issues you raised in your image review. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:02, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Seems like we are ready to roll then. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:39, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Source review

 * I made a few tweaks to formatting, but everything else seems to be in order. No dead links, etc. Citations are plentiful and are made to quality sources. --Coemgenus (talk) 15:12, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Sarastro1 (talk) 18:14, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.