Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Flame Robin/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 14:47, 15 September 2010.

Flame Robin

 * Nominator(s): Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because it is as comprehensive as I can make it using material which would be of interest to the general reader. Ummm...what else can I say...it's pretty short and easy to read and I will promise to fix problems raised pronto. So have at it. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * there are inconsistencies in the initialling formatting of hte authors and the date formats  YellowMonkey  ( new photo poll )  05:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Think I got 'em all... Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment—no dab links, no dead external links. Still some citation inconsistencies (refs as of this version):
 * refs. 2, 5, 6, and some others have comma before "p."; 9 and some others don't.
 * commas added Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't the citations to "Higgins" and to "Higgins et al." refer to the same work?
 * yup. fixed/aligned. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Initials (e.g., ref. 28) are formatted differently in the notes than for HANZAB under "Cited texts".
 * d'oh! missed that one. Fixed now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * ref. 8 repeats the format and shouldn't abbreviate the journal.
 * Fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * ref. 43 also shouldn't abbreviate the journal.
 * Fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * refs. 7 and 31 abbreviate the state name in the place of publication; ref. 17 doesn't.
 * unabbreviated Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Can't ref. 3 give a more precise place of publication than "United Kingdom"?
 * d'oh! missed that one. Fixed now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Now for some more substantial comments:
 * Ucucha 10:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The lead has room for more information on behavior.
 * embellished a little. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:07, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * petro- is not a word (is the actual form petros? I'm not sure).
 * petros it is, and fixed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "The Australian robins were also placed in the whistler family"—why the "also"?
 * ''because they'd been first placed in the Old World flycatcher family Muscicapidae. See preceding para. The two sentences are possibly a bit far apart for the "also"? Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think so; it sounds more like the "also" has something to do with the American or European robins. Perhaps it's better to take the "robin" discussion out of the taxonomic history, and place it with the paragraph about common names. Ucucha 14:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have moved to align all discussion of family placement together Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "The colour alone is not a reliable guide to determine sex"—don't you mean "to determine the species"?
 * ''oops. yes! fixed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "It is more common in uplands in Victoria."—more common than where?
 * the lowlands of victoria. Seems to be confusing so I'll reword. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have switched to " In Victoria, it is more common in uplands." Question is, do you think it needs (than low-lying regions or lowlands) at the end? Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think so. Ucucha 14:27, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay - "than lower altitudes" added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "It is unclear whether Tasmanian birds cross Bass Strait to winter in Victoria."—the discussion on subspecies earlier in the article states positively that they do migrate, as does the first paragraph of "Behaviour".
 * ''Changed to Should say "what proportion of" Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Although it is classified as Least Concern"—it's actually NT, as the article itself states.
 * ''Err, yes and no - the Australian Government has it as Least Concern, while Birdlife International has it as Near Threatened...Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Given the "2000" part in that URL, perhaps we can just blame the "LC" on it being out of date. Also, I think the Red List is what we usually take our conservation status from, not the Australian government. Ucucha 14:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I rejigged the order to highlight current classification is Near Threatened, and emphasize that as most current. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:01, 15 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Courting males also run to and fro in front of a female, in a crouch with wings and head lowered and hiding their breast feathers, again."—why the "again"?
 * No idea. I was fiddling with that bit for a while, must have been left in by mistake. removed Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Images:
 * File:Flame_robin.jpg: would be nice to crop away the "National Library of Australia" line at the bottom.
 * Now this is strange - if I look at File:Flame robin.jpg, it has been cropped, yet appears uncropped in the article....??? Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:00, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Such changes often take a while to propagate. I don't think even purging works. Ucucha 11:23, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Petroica_phoenicea1.jpg: needs evidence that the uploader is the author and released it under GFDL.
 * Found the original at Special:Undelete/File:Flame_Robin-1.jpg. However, the original description page doesn't say Tannin was the author, or that he released it under GFDL. Ucucha 13:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I found a better one which is appropriately licenced at Flickr. Have uploaded and cropped it on commons. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * File:Flamerobin_dist_gnangarra.png: what is the base map?
 * I think it might have been this one. I will ask Gnangarra who made the map. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that one, I've been making distribution maps since 2006, this one source uncertain now but from memory it was done off another distribution map from on en.Wikipedia that was PD, because I wasnt sure on how to create one I went looking for one to copy. I then sourced this one for making this one note I originally tagged this one as PD as well but then altered it to the cc-by-sa license up until now I've never compared the two though both look similar(as they should) as to which one was the base for this map I couldnt give a definative answer. As this is my third PC since 2006 the maps have been tranfered through at least a couple of storage devices to get here there's not much more I can offer from this end to follow the trail of which is which. Gnangarra 11:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ucucha 13:26, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. (Thank you to Ucucha and YM for catching the niggling things!) Ealdgyth - Talk 15:32, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Cute bird, and a cool name.
 * Can't help but feel that the lead illustration (small and out of focus) should be replaced with the drawing (from a reliable source, and shows both males and females)
 * ''I am ambivalent about using drawings rather than photos, and I suspect others are not keen. I did a quick scour of appropriately licenced photos on flickr for that one as there is a question mark over the previous taxobox one (and I thought the previous one was a bit scruffy anyway). The best outcome would be for someone on flickr to change their licence (which they often do when asked nicely)....until Noodle Snacks pops up the road into the woods and takes a few more photos...(they are commoner near him than me :)) Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "bill and eyes" Small thin black eyes?
 * d'oh! forgot to change that - "has dark brown eyes and a small thin black bill" to align with body of text Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Classified by BirdLife International as Near Threatened," Not really feeling the italics
 * My take on it was emphasis as word-as-word as per MOS on italics. I do like italics though - I'll drop it if there is consensus to do so...I check what Visionholder, Ucucha and Sasata (and Jimfbleak and Sabine's Sunbird etc) do :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "later described in its current genus" Doesn't read that well... Perhaps something like "designated to"? Not sure.
 * rejigged to active tense to avoid another para beginning "The Flame Robin...."  Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "and Robin Redbreast." You specified earlier that this was inaccurate- perhaps make it clear here?
 * "than other robins"- what do you mean by this? You've already noted that it isn't related to what I'd call a "robin"
 * I am lapsing into Australian colloquy --> "than other members of the genus Petroica"  Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Males sing rarely during this time, although they sing to defend their territories." Awkward
 * changed to "Males sing rarely during this time, although they do so to defend their territories" Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The description of the song is really cool- I can imagine just what it sounds like :)
 * "organization BirdLife International has regraded it" Why has?
 * because still current - perfect tense - i.e. they have done it and it remains so - I thought it is a nice way to incorporate extra meaning with few words Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The references would really look better in multiple columns- as most are so short, I'd be inclined to say three.
 * Ummm...ok. Someone often does them when I am buffing these things. Will do so Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm yet to read the behaviour section, I will do that another time. J Milburn (talk) 23:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, reading the behaviour section.
 * "including a breast-puffing display where it puffs" Again, why italics?
 * emphasis - words-as-words again, but I can drop it - not a hugely official term or anything. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Three or four dull white eggs tinted bluish, greyish or brownish and splotched with dark grey-brown measure 18 mm x 14 mm,[31] and are laid on consecutive days." Awkward- I think you need two sentences here
 * split


 * "most commonly of Eucalyptus viminalis around 4 m (13 ft) off the ground, and the latter in forks or on branches around 7 m (25 ft) above the ground, and more commonly in E. pauciflora." What? What's it common in, then?
 * rejigged -latter bit referring to Scarlet Robins Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "of Scarlet Robins in area"
 * of Scarlet Robins in the area - tweaked'' Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "afterwards till day" until?
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Eastern Brown Snake" the Eastern Brown Snake, or Eastern Brown Snakes, surely?
 *  I was writing with a Yorkshire accent placed a "the" at the beginning of the three predators mentioned Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok, done. J Milburn (talk) 00:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Support My few queries seem to have been addressed by Ucucha since i first read through  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  17:04, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. Very readable, good prose, referencing appears sound. Images appear in order. One trivial query: should "a perch and pounce hunter" be hyphenated (ie. a perch-and-pounce hunter)? hamiltonstone (talk) 00:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Good question - I am happy either way. My general take on those is to be somewhat sparing on the hyphen use, but if consensus is that it is a good idea then okay. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Support A pleasant read all the way through, and it seems well-sourced.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 00:37, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.