Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Frederick Browning/archive1

Frederick Browning

 * Nominator(s): Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

This article is about Boy Browning, a British Army general and Olympian who served as head of the Duke of Edinburgh's office. His wife is more famous than he is. Hawkeye7  (discuss)  20:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Image review

 * File:Sosabowski Browning.jpg No reason to believe Poland is the country of origin for this photograph, no publication date given so the licensing is invalid anyway (t &#183; c)  buidhe  00:22, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Removed from the article. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  00:44, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * https://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/frederick_browning.htm what makes this a high-quality RS ? (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:54, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It is widely cited in the literature, mainly because it reproduces the war diaries in an accessible form. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:58, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, you replaced it anyway so the question is moot. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  10:49, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * File:British Airborne Units.png I am still of the opinion that including this brightly colored image in such a prominent location and large size constitutes undue weight and only serves to distract the reader. Browning's role in this logo is only covered in less than a sentence, and it is not important to his biography. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  10:52, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Browning was the one who created the logo, and the colour scheme. Having it there allows the reader to see what the article is talking about. It is the same size as the other images; default size is used so the reader can control the sizes. We'll see if another editor agrees with you. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  04:42, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * What I'd really like is an image of his uniform, which is on display at the IWM in Duxford. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  04:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

HF - support
Recusing to review - I recognized the name from reading A Bridge Too Far a couple years ago. Hog Farm Talk 16:09, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I read the book as a boy. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * " was a senior officer of the British Army who has been called the "father of the British airborne forces"." - shouldn't this quote be somewhere in the body as well?
 * Added. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming it's from an old paragraph split, but the first paragraph of early life has no citations
 * Yes. Put the paragraph back together. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "although only hospitalised for four weeks, did not rejoin the 2nd Battalion at the front until 6 October 1916" - any specific reason why?
 * There's a difference between needing to be in hospital and being fit for duty. Expanded on this, since you are interested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "and mentioned in despatches on 23 May 1918" - maybe an ENGVAR issue, but should it be "and was mentioned in despatches"?
 * Sounds okay to me, but added a second "was". Using an auxiliary verb this way seems normal to me.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "When he found that the 2/503, was to take part" - not sure the comma after 2/503 should be there
 * Deleted. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "Some saw him as "a ruthless and manipulative empire builder who brooked no opposition"" - recommend naming Browning instead of using "he", since Lathbury and Urquhart are discussed more recently before this than Browning
 * Added. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "In his pack, Browning carried three teddy bears and a framed print of Albrecht Dürer's The Praying Hands" - is this really due detail?
 * I think it was there as a DYK hook, but the article was never submitted to DYK. I thought it was a nice human
 * " although he did not officially retire from the Army until 5 April 1948" - this is stated twice in about two or three sentences. I think there can be a way to smooth the transition and avoid repeating information
 * Deleted one. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't imagine the generals.dk external link is really useful in any way
 * Agreed. (I think someone went around adding it to articles. Removed. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  09:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Sourcing looks fine.

Hog Farm Talk 03:31, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Support from Gog the Mild
Recusing to review. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:59, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * " including shortages of photographs". Could we elaborate on what is meant by "photographs", for the uninitiated. And is there no link?
 * Linked. Added a bit. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "He relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson"; "He relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson". Suggest removing one of these.
 * I think I get what you mean. Trimmed second mention. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The garish logo seems a bit large and tends to overpower an article which otherwise approaches perfection. Perhaps a little smaller? Perhaps a shorter caption - much of the current one repeats the article.
 * I don't want to force a size (MOS:IMGSIZE), so removed. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Mike Christie
I can't find much to comment on; this is in excellent shape. -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you confirm the spelling is "Ygdrasil" in the source? I've always seen it as "Yggdrasil", and Google confirms that's the correct spelling, though of course Browning was at liberty to mis-spell it for the name of his boat if he wished.
 * I checked it against the source to make sure it wasn't a misspelling on my part, and then against a second source to make sure that my source hadn't misspelt it. Added a second source to the article. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 'Because of this he has been called the "father of the British airborne forces"' makes it sound as though he's called this because he designed his own uniform; perhaps "Because of his role he has been called..."?
 * Move the sentence to avoid the ambiguity.
 * "an apathetic War Office and an obstructionist Air Ministry": not knowing any of the history, I don't know why the War Office would be apathetic in 1941-1942, or why the Air Ministry would be obstructionist -- perhaps they were biased towards the RAF? Could a couple of words of explanation be added?
 * That seems a bit harsh. Deleted the adjectives. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a word or two on whether Browning was correct to criticize Operation Ladbroke?
 * Added a bit. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This doesn't necessarily require a change in the article, but I'm curious: it appears from the fact that Ernest Down was Browning's subordinate (you say "Browning sent his...commander, Major-General Ernest Down") as GOC 1st Airborne that Hopkinson would have been Browning's subordinate too, so how did Hopkinson get round Browning to sell Montgomery on Operation Ladbroke? Or is the chain of command in the army not as rigid as I'm imagining it?
 * As head of Airborne forces, Browning was not in the chain of command for Husky. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "Browning sent his most experienced airborne commander...": this sentence is long and hard to parse.
 * Broken up the sentence. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The next sentence, starting "Down's replacement in command..." is also long, and appears to be missing its verb; I think it should be "was" instead of "by".
 * Tweaked sentence. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "While retaining command...": another serpentine sentence that needs breaking up.
 * Broken up the sentence. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "Browning was forced into a humiliating backdown": suggest "Browning was forced, humiliatingly, to back down", to avoid "backdown" as a noun, which to my ear is a little casual.
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "under which the drop was staggered over several days, and not to make two drops on the first day": I don't think the syntax that joins these clauses works. How about "under which the drop was staggered over several days, with only one drop on the first day"?
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * How is the furore at SEAC relevant to this article?
 * Deleted. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it would be more usual to say that Princess Elizabeth came to the throne; yes, she was also Duchess of Edinburgh, but that title is less well-known and in any case presumably a junior title.
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Support. All the fixes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Source review

 * The publishers need linking (should an article exist for one) like Penguin Books, Tempus Publishing, Viking Press etc.
 * Don't see this as very useful, but added links. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  15:07, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This one does not need addressing but for some reason Google Books lists Lulu.com as Arnhem: The Battle for the Bridges' publisher although everywhere else it's Penguin Books, which I assume is the correct one. FrB.TG (talk) 08:44, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I just go off what it says in my copy. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  15:07, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Support Comments from JennyOz
Hi Hawkeye, CUB time! One man - Olympian, two world wars, royal household, famous wife, Bogarde, commodore, knight - there's enough for several bios. I am having intermittent connection problems. If I disappear, don't wait, I can always ask anything further on talk page after promotion.


 * lede
 * Operation Market Garden is mentioned twice intentional?
 * Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
 * Daphne du Maurier is also there twice - ditto. It looks like the first para is a summary of the next 2 paras in the lede - intentional?
 * Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.


 * Early life
 * Probably, but re-worked the lead to only do so once.
 * and his wife Nancy (née Alt) - her real name was Anne (per Mead and per Browning snr's article - maybe change to Anne "Nancy" (née Alt). Or Nancy (Anne)
 * Wow. The source says Nancy, but the Peerage says Anne. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * In Mead chapter 1 there is a passage that reads, "Freddie also found time to get married on 1 March 1894 at St Mary Abbots, Kensington, to Anne Alt. Always known as Nancy, his bride was the daughter of...". Sorry I can't give you a page number. It's possibly p5 which is already included in ref 5, so no further action needed. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is on page 4. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  19:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * He had one sibling, his older sister Helen Grace - an older
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * First World War
 * regimental commander, Colonel Sir Henry Streatfield - is Henry Streatfeild (courtier) (though spelt fei not fie)?
 * Great new article! Corrected the spelling (my fault), and linked to the new article. Also tagged and assessed it. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * and then to the Guards Depot at Caterham - Caterham Barracks?
 * Yes. Linked to that article. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Inter-war period
 * posted to the Guards' Depot in Caterham - barracks again?
 * Yes. Changed. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Sovereign's Parade - wlink? (even though it is a redirect to section on Sandhurst article which is already linked? It has "They are followed by the Academy Adjutant on horseback (the origins of this tradition are unclear)."
 * Linked. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * posted to the 2nd Battalion, Grenadier Guards, at Pirbright - Army Training Centre Pirbright?
 * Linked. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * allowing plenty of time for sports - (do Poms use plural like in US and unlike us?}
 * Deleted the "s". Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ygdrasil. - in or on, you have both
 * Changed to "on" for consistency. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * for the winter, but returned in - swap "but" to "and"? ("but" sounds like it was not intended)
 * Sure. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Browning was promoted to lieutenant-colonel on - pipe to Lieutenant colonel (United Kingdom)?
 * Piped. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Second World War
 * When the Prime Minister, Churchill, - add "now" Prime Minister (he is mentioned before as a Major). Also remove "the" and comma or lower case prime minister
 * Re-worded. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * command of Lieutenant-General Dwight D. Eisenhower- needs US before Lieutenant?
 * Added. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * shortages of aerial photographs - Aerial reconnaissance in World War II is a better link?
 * Switched link. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * called the "Rote Teufel" or "Red Devils" by - put translation in brackets so it doesn't sound like an alternative?
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * the Air Officer C-in-C; - Commanding-in-Chief? as C-in-C not explained
 * Expanded. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Brigadier-General James M. Gavin, the - US before brigadier? (it is not apparent to me who from where (yes you have US in front of first mention of 82nd, but that is so many ranks and acronyms ago)
 * Added. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Major-General Ray Barker told him that Browning - what experience of Browning did Barker have?
 * Added US to this one too.
 * subhead "Allied Force Headquarters posting" - is piped above to be plural ie Allied Forces Headquarters
 * Deleted the "s". Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * relinquished command of the 1st Airborne Division to Brigadier George Hopkinson - already has rank and first name above
 * Deleted. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * after Hopkinson been killed in Italy - missing had
 * Added. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  19:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Some saw Browning as "a ruthless and manipulative empire builder who brooked no opposition" - "some"? quote belongs to one person or is that Buckingham's quote summing up multiple people?
 * Yes. Deleted. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Operation Market Garden
 * to Major-General Urquhart, GOC of the British 1st Airborne Division - insert Roy to differentiate from "Major Brian Urquhart" (and he was already mentioned as a Major-General)
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Grave and Nijmegen bridges - is the Grave bridge what became named John S. Thompsonbrug, pipe it? And the other is Nijmegen railway bridge?
 * Yes, that it the Grave bridge. There are two bridges at Nijmegen, the road bridge (Waalbrug) and the Nijmegen railway bridge. Clarified this. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Browning was awarded the Order of Polonia Restituta - link it again since ibox (the Croix is linked twice)
 * Linked. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Later life
 * the Cutty Sark Trust - would that be styled the Cutty Sark Trust? actually, it was Society back then?
 * Sure. Italicised. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order in 1953,[93] and was advanced to Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order in 1959 - same landing article is intentional?
 * No. Unlinked. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Legacy
 * A Bridge Too Far (film) - according to Daphne's article, the portrayal was bad and she went to the press - worth mentioning?
 * Added a bit about it.
 * Browning Barracks, which had been built in 1964 and named after Browning - after "him"
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, Browning Barracks, has a redirect link. Add it or at least put "at Aldershot" after Barracks? JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  19:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Images top down
 * Daphne caption "Browning was inspired by the graphic depictions of the Cornish coastline in his wife's novel The Loving Spirit." - not wife when he was inspired, "had been inspired" or "her" novel
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * King George VI inspects... - no alt, caption does job?
 * Added "|alt=refer to caption"
 * Hotspur "Six man parties of 1st Airborne Division..." - hyphen Six-man parties.
 * Hyphenated. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Glider Pilot Exercise Unit - wlink Glider Pilot Exercise Unit RAF?
 * Linked (How did you find that?) Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Just in search from memory. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Netheravon - wlink Netheravon Airfield?
 * Linked. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Browning observes training at Netheravon - tweak Alt "...wearing a military uniform a peaked cap with scarlet band." - "and" a peaked cap
 * Trimmed alt per Manual of Style/Accessibility/Alternative text for images Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Browning stands by a Douglas Dakota - RAF Transport Command - wlink?
 * Linked
 * Lyneham, Wiltshire - link or pipe to RAF Lyneham? No alt - intentional?
 * Added links, alt. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Browning in Ceylon, 1945. - lose full stop? No alt - intentional?
 * Deleted full stop. Added alt. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Mountbatten with Chiang Kai-Shek - needs a full stop after T. V. Soong. Also R. V. Brockman - link Ronald Brockman. No alt
 * Added full stop, alt. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Missed link for Brockman? JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It was missed. Added. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  19:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

That's it. I have rushed to finish in case connection drops out again. If you don't hear from me... I certainly have nothing to oppose. Thanks for a great read. Very interesting life, very engaging prose. JennyOz (talk) 16:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Notes
 * Note 4 Urquart's biographer - typo Urquhart's - Roy or Brian?
 * Clarified. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Still needs H to fix typo. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Corrected. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  19:17, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note 43 Greenacre 2010, pp. 155. - single p
 * Corrected. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note 81 gazette No. 38018". The London Gazette (Supplement). 18 July 1945. - 1947
 * Corrected. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ryan, Cornelius (1974). A Bridge Too Far. London - do we link books here when they have an article?
 * Linked. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I greatly appreciate you and the other reviewers taking the time to review.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:57, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Back for a minute. I have added five replies above. All else is fine thanks. JennyOz (talk) 11:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Great! Happy to add support. (Thanks for fixing my formatting.) JennyOz (talk) 19:40, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

(t &#183; c)  buidhe  20:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)