Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fridtjof Nansen/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 18:33, 4 September 2010.

Fridtjof Nansen

 * Nominator(s): Brianboulton (talk) 20:46, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Not just a polar saga: Nansen was one of the most significant European figures of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Sportsman, scientist, explorer, diplomat, statesman, Nobel laureate – a giant of his times, a story well worth the telling. I have had some useful assistance with the article from a couple of Norwegian editors, Ruhrfisch has provided two lovely maps, Ealdgyth has photographed Fram, Elcobbola has checked out the pics. Others have given generous help at the peer review, so all in all this is a pretty good team effort, and I'm proud to be the nominator. Brianboulton (talk) 20:46, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - no dab links. ScienceDirect seems to be down, but according to this the problem is temporary, and there are no other dead external links. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:07, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ScienceDirect is now back up, but it says the format of the URL for this is incorrect. Ucucha 08:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I have replaced the url and this appears to be working now (Ref 166). Brianboulton (talk) 22:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, looking good now. Ucucha 22:04, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose per criterion three (note I only checked certain images prior to the FAC, not all). Relatively minor (i.e. easily resolvable) issues remain:
 * File:Fridtjof Nansen - Project Gutenberg eText 13103.jpg - Published in London; should not be using anonymous-EU over PD-UK-Unknown. Use of either requires "reasonable enquiry", which is not "the source neglected to mention an author".  What entities have been contacted in an attempt to determine the author?  Moving to en.wiki would resolve the issue if no such enquiry has been made.
 * Oddly, the licencing of this image was arranged by another reviewer during the FAC of Nansen's Fram expedition last October, and it never occurred to me that there was any problem in its use here. I have asked an admin to do as you suggest and move to en.wiki - I don't know how to do this myself. Brianboulton (talk) 11:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * As requested, I have uploaded a copy here on the English Wikipedia under the same file name. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:20, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Brianboulton (talk) 12:59, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * File:A E Nordenskiold.jpg - Should have license indicating its status in its country of origin (Sweden).
 * Have added a PD-old licence. The engraver, Stodart, died in 1889 and Sweden has a life + 70 copyright rule. Brianboulton (talk) 12:59, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Christiania Norway in 1814 by MK Tholstrup.jpg - Needs a verifiable source per WP:IUP.
 * This was pretty much a decoration and I have removed it. In its place I have put File:Nansen-aged4.jpg from Flickr, which needs to be reviewed by an administrator or reviewer to confirm that its license is valid. Brianboulton (talk) 11:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Oscar II of Sweden.jpg - Needs a verifiable source. Эlcobbola  talk 21:13, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed this image, as its relevance was marginal. Brianboulton (talk) 11:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Would File:Oscar II of Sweden painted by Oscar Björck (original).jpg or the cropped version File:Oscar II of Sweden painted by Oscar Björck.jpg work? Source is specified there. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Either would be fine, yes (note I've corrected the sourcing ; we should never link directly to an image unless the image itself contains the relevant authorship/date/publication information).  Эlcobbola  talk 20:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks; you may want to check out File:EvaNansenskiing.jpg, which I have added after the start of this FAC. Brianboulton (talk) 11:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No issues there. Эlcobbola  talk 20:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. I have added the second of Ruhrfisch's Oscar images, though it's not essential to the article and can be withdrawn if anyone thinks it intrusive. Brianboulton (talk) 21:23, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - any chance that you could add pronunciation anywhere in the article? Nothing major, I won't oppose, but it may become useful to some - I, for one have no idea how to pronounce his first name. Connormah 21:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I will need help on this, as I am unfamiliar with IPA. The English pronunciation of his first name - "Frit-yof" - is straightforward, but the Norwegian pronunciation may be different. I will pursue the issue on the talkpage. Brianboulton (talk) 12:51, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ['frɪt.jɒf] (English) I think. Ucucha 12:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The problem is, the name in the first line of the article is "Fridtjof Wedel-Jarlsberg Nansen" which would give an extended IPA version which I think would disrupt the first line of the article. Any thoughts on that? Brianboulton (talk) 23:00, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Just his common name (Fridtjof Nansen) would be okay - even just 'Fridtjof' would maybe be okay, but yeah, some outside thougts would be better to settle it. Connormah 03:21, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. I read this through when it was at peer review, and found it very well-written, and an interesting read that held my attention to the end. I made some edits and suggestions earlier, and I'm happy to support. The only thing I would like to have seen is a longer discussion of his personal life, because it seems he was a bit of a womanizer, and this caused him problems of various kinds. It is touched on in the article, but I'd have liked to see a bit more. But this is just a preference issue. SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 21:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support and for your earlier help. On the question of Nansen's womanising, I am a little reluctant to add more. There is no evidence that his major work was ever seriously affected or impeded by his infidelities, and emphasising the few details that are available might be thought to be trivialising, or sensation-seeking. Of his supposed paramours, only Kathleen Scott is notable in her own right, and I think it proper to mention this relationship as asserted by Huntford. Brianboulton (talk) 21:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Support - as noted above, I made the two maps (one for this article and one for the earlier FA on Nansen's Fram expedition) and I also peer reviewed it. All of my concerns were addressed at PR, and since Elcobbola's image concerns are "easily resolvable", I am glad to support now. A fascinating man and article, well done! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:27, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the support and for your continuing help above, re the images. I hope those issues are all resolved now. Brianboulton (talk) 21:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Support I made a fair number of comments at the peer review, which were satisfactorily addressed, I see no point in repeating them here. As usual, Brian has come up with a well written article, with this of particular importance due to Nansen's role both in Arctic exploration and international diplomacy.  Deserves promotion.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:24, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support and kind words. Brianboulton (talk) 21:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments -
 * What makes http://www.bivouac.com/default.asp a reliable source?
 * The Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia, whose website this is, is used merely to confirm that "Mount Nansen" in the Yukon exists. While extensive, the site is irritatingly anonymous, and for that reason I wouldn't use it for anything beyond simple confirmation of names. The site claims to have been operating for 15 years, and is mainly a subscription service, though basic information is given free. There are other online sources that confirm the existence of this Mount Nansen, if you think this source does not justify the use I have made of it. Brianboulton (talk) 19:44, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A plain map from Google would be fine, I'd think. Or some similar gazeteer. Anonymous doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate Google maps; I can never find the url that takes me directly to the version of the map I want. I expect that's another example of things that I'm no good at. However, no matter; I have replaced the queried source with a map from the Government of Yukon which shows the location of the mountain, which is all I wanted. Brianboulton (talk) 22:53, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * For future reference, I take my URLs from the "Link" button at the top-right corner of the map's frame. Changes automatically depending on your amount of zoom, your location, and viewing mode (map, satellite, or Earth). Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:18, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Many thanks - yet another useful lesson learned. Who says FAC is a waste of time? I will copy this advice to my talkpage so that I don't forget where I got it from. Brianboulton (talk) 09:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Why just "Santa Barbara" when the other obscure American cities get state too?
 * State name added Brianboulton (talk) 19:44, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:48, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. I was one of the peer reviewers and thought the article ready for FAC early on. Assuming that Elcobbola's image concerns will be addressed and likewise Ealdgyth's two concerns, I'm happy to support. One quibble: would it be possible to shrink File:Nansen-aged4.jpg by two or three lines? It displaces the "Early life" subhead on my computer screen. I see that you've already used the "upright" parameter. I think there's a way to shrink the image even more, but I don't know how it's done. Finetooth (talk) 17:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The markup is "upright=x", so it could be made smaller with something like "upright=0.7" or whatever other number would resolve the displacement. Эlcobbola  talk 20:13, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Elcobbola. Brian has solved the problem by combining two subsections, but the upright markup will come in handy in the future. Finetooth (talk) 20:50, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) The trouble is that the section the image is in is so short that, with this image shape, you'd have to reduce to "upright= 0.3" to get it into the section without overlap. That makes the image unacceptably small. The solution I have adopted is to combine the two subsections "Ancestry" and "Early life" to form one undivided section. Brianboulton (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ...and thanks, Finetooth, for your encoragement and support. Brianboulton (talk) 21:45, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Support, with comments:
 * Link Fram in the discussion of the vessel. The article on the expedition is linked, the page on the ship is not.
 * Linked
 * "Nansen had by now turned his back on polar exploration"-- this sounds like he rejected it (as opposed to just giving it up). Is that the intended meaning?
 * It's probably fairer to just say that he retired from polar exploration, and I have reworded accordingly.
 * The 2004 frigate was not the first ship of the Norwegian navy to be named for him. Fridtjof Nansen was a gunboat laid down in 1928 and commissioned in 1931.  This vessel escaped the German occupation of Norway in May 1940 but was lost later that year off Jan Mayen.
 * Interesting; maybe that could be added to the frigate article, with appropriate sourcing.

Kablammo (talk) 13:04, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments and support for the article. Brianboulton (talk) 13:50, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * While it is not a reliable source, I just found the Wikipedia article on the gunboat, HNoMS Fridtjof Nansen OPV. Perhaps the "otheruses" template at the top should be changed.  Kablammo (talk) 13:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.