Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/G-8 and His Battle Aces/archive1

G-8 and His Battle Aces

 * Nominator(s): Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:43, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

This article is about an air-war pulp magazine set in World War I. Apparently the Germans used zombies, mummies, Martians, and giant bats to attack the allies in World War I, but somehow none of these events made it into the official history books, perhaps because the heroic G-8 stopped the German threats over and over again. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:43, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Image review
Based on your comments at Talk:G-8_and_His_Battle_Aces I believe the reason for believing these are free is the lack of any copyright notice on the issues in question? If so, it's better to use PD-US-no notice. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It's because they were not renewed after 28 years. I would imagine they were published with a copyright notice but I don't have copies of my own to check.  I see my comments on the talk page aren't clear about this, so I've clarified there. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 12:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Support by Ceoil
Placeholder comments, but I do like these articles as they remind me of one of my favourite piece of retro-futurism:


 * a hero pulp featuring a mysterious crime fighter - might be an idea to spell out what a "hero pulp" is as was surprised it was blue linked (albeit to a sub-sect). Ditto for "mysterious"...unidentified or something.
 * I was nervous about a long parenthetical definition in the lead, but I think you're right it's needed. I've added something -- how does that look? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks good, though the phrasing "pulp hero" seems easier to grasp. Ceoil (talk) 02:32, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * He often contributed stories to the magazines as well as the lead novel - did the mag have a lead novel for each issue?
 * Yes, and in fact the definition I just added to the lead makes that clearer -- I hadn't realized that wasn't coming through. I think it should be clear in the body and lead now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Now happy. Ceoil (talk) 02:32, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * the Germans coming up with extraordinary or fantastic threats to the Allied forces - coming up with should be retaliating, attacking, or inventing. Maybe link Fantastic.
 * I reworded this a bit; the word "fantastic" is now right next to the list that includes giant bats and zombies, so maybe that does it? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Just finished reading How Shaun of the Dead Was Brought to Life, so the rewording of giant bats and zombies is most pleasing. Ceoil (talk) 02:35, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I've made some changes and have a couple of questions above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The magazine was successful and still draws praise from pulp historians - a sentence here (in the lead) for why it is still regarded (the Lee Server quote suggest why it last so long, but not why it is still remembered). Also re "successful", say if critically, commercial, or both.
 * It was commercially successful; added. It's difficult to be specific about why a pulp is liked -- mostly the modern sources don't go into detail.    The full quote from Server is "It was a credit to Hogan's readable prose and great imagination that G-8 managed to last right through a new, second world war, by which time the background and aircraft in the pulp were hopelessly outdated."  I've pulled a few words from that as a direct quote for the body; do you think that needs to go into the lead as well? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * a surprisingly late date in World War II ....seems like it should be attributed.
 * This in the lead is just my attempt to summarize Server's comment quoted above; clearly he thinks it's surprising, or at least impressive. I've connected up the sentences in the lead a little differently to associate this opinion with Server; does that do it? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Lee Server attributing Hogan's skills as prolonging the mag would have more credibility if we could mention a few of the (as hinted) me-too publications that shut down earlier.
 * I can identify some air-war pulps that shut down earlier than this did, but would that be original research on my part? Server doesn't really compare this magazine with others. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Robert Lesser calls it a pulp oath: it starts by asking why so many of their fellow Americans are bored with their lives, and then asserts:. He believes "it starts by asking..."
 * Not sure what you're asking for here? Lesser is a modern historian, so he's just quoting it -- is that not clear? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Is "it starts by asking..." in your or his voice....Ceoil (talk) 02:43, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * My voice. The first paragraph of the "credo" is "Too often, we believe, do the citizens of our fair communities walk about in a daily fog, which cannot be attributed to the weather, nor to any gushing smoke stack.  Obviously, too many people are bored.  Of course, they may be suffering earnestly, and towards that we can only offer our sympathies.  But why, we ask insistently, why must people be forever bored?"  I felt this was too long to quote directly, so I was trying to summarize it with "It start by asking why so many of their fellow Americans are bored with their lives...".  Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 10:21, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note sure "Bibliographic details" is the best title for the final section; maybe "Title change and editorship". Ceoil (talk) 00:09, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd like to keep the title for consistency with other magazine articles. It can cover other things; not just price and pagination, but changes in format, British and/or Canadian editions, reprints, and anthologies, depending on which of those applies to each magazine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 01:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, but I prob wont have time for another look for a week or so....that said, all looking good. Ceoil (talk) 02:38, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Is Lee Server really a pulp historian - maybe blue link. Ceoil (talk) 02:41, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Hadn't realized we had an article on him -- linked. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:21, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

This is clearly FAC standard and all gripes rationalised or addressed; happy to support an interesting, very vey well written (as usual from Mike) escapist (just what I needed), read. Ceoil (talk) 16:08, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ceoil! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:01, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Coord notes
We're almost 3 weeks in without supports. If there is no progress towards promotion in the next few days, this may have to be archived. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  00:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Support by FrB.TG
This is an excellent shape. Just some points that can easily be addressed and don't affect my support.
 * "The success of Street & Smith's The Shadow, a hero pulp (a magazine with a lead novel in each issue featuring a single character), led to many imitations and Popular followed suit in 1933 by relaunching Battle Aces as a hero pulp" - this can be simplified to ""The success of Street & Smith's The Shadow, a hero pulp (a magazine with a lead novel in each issue featuring a single character), led to many imitations and Popular relaunching Battle Aces as a hero pulp in 1933". Both these facts were a result of the success.
 * I did this slightly differently, per Nikki's comment below. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "It changed from monthly to bimonthly publication during the war and eventually ceased publication in 1944." Repetition of "publication" within close proximity.
 * Rephrased. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "It was the first magazine to specialize in fiction about flying" - would it lose its meaning in some way if it were condensed to "It was the first fictional magazine about flying"?
 * I think "fictional magazine" could be misread as "magazine in a work of fiction", such as The Daily Prophet. I think the word "specialize" is important here too -- there had certainly been magazine fiction about flying before this, just not in a magazine that specialized in only those stories. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I suggest linking wolf-men to werewolf
 * Done. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "..To all of you who have written...may your reading thrills increase, and may your cares be cast by the wayside'." If the sentence in the source also ends after "wayside", I suggest placing the full stop inside the quotation marks per MOS:LQ. If not, it is fine as is.
 * It does; done. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "The price dropped to 15 cents when the title changed, and to 10 cents with the March 1936 issue; the page count dropped from 128 to 112 pages in October 1935, rising to 114 pages in August 1941 before dropping again towards the end of the run, with the final issues being only 82 pages long." Three instances of "dropped" in one sentence. FrB.TG (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Changed one of them to "cut". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the review and support! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:04, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Source review
Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed
 * That The Shadow "led to many imitations" is implied but not stated in the article text
 * I thought about expanding this in the body of the article, but this isn't the article about The Shadow, so I just cut it from the lead. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "The magazine was commercially successful and still draws praise from pulp historians" - source and as of when?
 * Hulse and Server are both complimentary about it, and I've added a supporting quote from Hulse in the body, but I decided to cut it from the lead anyway as those are the only two I have stating an opinion. I also decided to cut "commercially successful" -- the editor, Harry Steeger, says in an interview that I could cite that they always shut down magazines that weren't a big success because it was better to shut down one making a small profit and start another making a large profit.  So any Popular Publications title that lasted more than a year or two must have been commercially successful.  I thought about citing this interview, but I don't think it's a key point for this article.  I'll probably end up putting something about that in the article about Steeger, or about Popular. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 19:42, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "It changed from monthly to bimonthly publication during the war" - suggest specifying which war
 * Done. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "This was an unusually late date during World War II for a magazine featuring aircraft that were by then long obsolete to end" - source?
 * Server says "It was a credit to Hogan's readable prose and great imagination that G-8 managed to last right through a new, second world war, by which time the background and aircraft in the pulp were hopelessly outdated. The final issue, featuring the story "Wings of the Death Tigers", was dated June 1944."  This is the source for the comment at the end of the lead and also for the last comment in the "Publication history" section. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 19:08, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hm. That is not how I would have interpreted the original statement - suggest rephrasing. (I took it to mean there were other such magazines that ended earlier during WWII). Nikkimaria (talk) 22:55, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, fair. Rephrased; how does that look? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 10:32, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep, better. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:48, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Missing bibliographic details for Sampson and Goulart, and the date for Hocutt and Robinson & Davidson differs between the short and long citations
 * Hocutt fixed. Robinson & David I think I cited to a web copy but I now have a copy in my hands so I cited to that.  Sampson and Goulart added. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 17:17, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Check formatting on FN4
 * Fixed. Good eye! Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hulse: Worldcat gives a different spelling of the publisher, can you verify?
 * Seems to be an error in Worldcat -- the spelling is definitely "Murania" on the book. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I see there is one citation to a chapter within Lesser, and then one to Lesser generally - is the latter meant to be a chapter citation also? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:18, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No -- the book is by Lesser, but he has several short essays by specialists embedded in the book, and the Hocutt citation is one of those. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:05, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, Nikki; all points addressed now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:42, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Buidhe
Support on 1a, 3 (see above), and 4. Other criteria not evaluated. After reading the article, I do not have any prose suggestions. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  00:16, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:55, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * "It was one of the first four magazines launched by Popular when they began operations in 1930" In American English, I think the "they" should be "it".
 * "The magazine originally appeared on a monthly schedule, but changed to bimonthly during World War II and eventually ceased publication in 1944." I'm not sure "eventually" is necessary.
 * "The pulp historian Lee Server suggests" I might strike "The".
 * The lead mentions Hogan's writing and the magazine lasting as long as it did, and the obsolescence of the depicted airplanes as connected facts, in the body they don't seem connected.
 * "side-kicks" I might render as "sidekicks"
 * That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:15, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * All done. For the point about the magazine lasting as long as it did, the same source is used for both; I've tried to connect the sentences so the reader sees that Server is making that argument. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 11:42, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Support.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 14:30, 13 March 2022 (UTC)