Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Garden Warbler/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:GrahamColm 10:01, 28 July 2013 (UTC).

Garden Warbler

 * Nominator(s):  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:20, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

This is the Blackcap's plain cousin, noted for, well, its lack of distinguishing features. There is so much overlap in the literature on these two bird species, it seemed logical to follow the Blackcap's FAC with this one. There is lots of research material, so let me know if you think I've omitted something important.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:20, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Rather than photographs of figs, woodland, a cuckoo and Messiaen it would be better to have pictures of chicks, eggs, a nest or the bird in flight. Aa77zz (talk) 10:59, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Comments by Aa77zz
 * Absolutely agree, but this is what is on Commons. Having said that, even if there is a good choice, I think it's useful to have habitat images at least, rather just pictures of the bird. Here, it's either figs and Messiaen or nothing  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  12:04, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There are a couple of photos used in the article on German Wiki but unfortunately the quality is low and probably not adequate for this article.


 * Do the statistics at the end of the section on breeding apply over the entire range of the warbler? Where was the study carried out? Does the breeding range of the warbler entirely lie within the range of the cuckoo?
 * It's a UK study, I've made that clear now. I suspect, but cannot verify, that losses will be higher elsewhere, particularly in warmer areas, since the Cuckoo is declining in the UK. The Garden Warbler's range in completely within the range of the Cuckoo in Europe. In parts of Asia, the very similar Oriental Cuckoo may replace its relative  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * How efficient is the Garden Warbler at rejecting the cuckoo's eggs?
 * It's difficult to quantify this. It remains a host, unlike Blackcap, so it's not perfect at discriminating, but the Cuckoo eggs have to look convincingly like those of the warbler (unlike the Dunnock, a recent host, which will accept anything egg-like)  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The value of less than 3% for the brood parasitism by the Common Cuckoo is small and (to me) doesn't appear very significant. But this short article mentions that the Cuckoo is a brood parasite of the Garden Warbler on four occasions - the lead, breading, parasites and the photo. Each mention seems reasonable but the repetition perhaps gives the impression that this parasitism is more significant than it perhaps really is. Aa77zz (talk) 06:45, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, but I'm not sure what the way forward is. The image, if it stays, has to have the caption to make sense, and I don't know which other occurrence is most expendable.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * " It is second only to the Eurasian Reed Warbler in terms of the number of parasitised nests."; the 3% figure, from what I can tell, is for deaths owing to brood parasitism. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:51, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Amounts to the same thing, the Cuckoo chick pushes the warbler's eggs or chicks out of the nest, so they always perish  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  10:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * My point was that repetition may be worthy simply because it is one of the most commonly parasited species (even if the death rate is at 3%) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:37, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Support My concerns here and on the Talk page have been addressed. Another excellent article from Jim. Aa77zz (talk) 07:57, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for review and particularly for sorting out the Cuckoo confusion  Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Image review by Crisco 1492


 * File:Sylviaborinmap2.jpg is fine
 * File:Sylvia borin.ogg is fine
 * File:Sylvia borin (Örebro County).jpg is fine
 * File:The Holies - geograph.org.uk - 915202.jpg is fine, although the highlights are a little blown
 * File:Garden Warbler.jpg should have a note that the source is now claiming full copyright. Use this template
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * File:Ficus carica0.jpg is missing author data and I don't see any indication in the source that it is free
 * Removed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * File:Cuculus canorus vogelartinfo chris romeiks CHR0431.jpg should have a date
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * File:Olivier Messiaen 1930.jpg - I'm getting "Access denied" from the source. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:25, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Removed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for image review. For various reasons I don't like the other Commons images for figs or Messiaen, so just removed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Addressed comments from Crisco 1492 moved to talk
 * Support on prose and images. Good job! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment - added author, source and permission for File:Ficus carica0.jpg. Should be OK to re-add, if you want it as illustration. GermanJoe (talk) 14:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Joe, I've put it back <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:53, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * Is Mann et al 2010 or 2012?
 * Cocker or Cocker & Mabey?
 * No citations to Gibbons
 * Publisher for Snow & Snow? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Gibbons ref added, others fixed. Thanks, Nikkimaria <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment reading through now. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:26, 28 June 2013 (UTC)


 * but the Booted Warbler is similar in colour to the Garden Warbler, although it is smaller, more delicately built and has a flesh-coloured bill. - I am not sure we need the bit I've bolded - reads a tad repetitively but I am not sure the meaning is conserved without it...?

Other than that, tentative support (moral or otherwise) as WP birds member. Looks pretty good on prose and comprehensiveness. Sources not spotchecked. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:58, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for support, I've made the suggested edit <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

After a quick look, I would think that the article needs some more polishing to make it easier to read. Snowman (talk) 13:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "It normally forages at below 6 m (20 ft)." I presume that this means less than 6m above ground level, and not sea level. Snowman (talk) 13:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Changed as suggested <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "Over 35 plant species have been recorded as food for this warbler in central Europe, with many more in the Mediterranean region and the African wintering grounds." Does this mean 35 plus many more or that most of the 35 are found in the Med and Africa. Snowman (talk) 13:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Now ...just in central Europe, with many additional species being consumed in the Mediterranean region... <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments, <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "One brood per year is normal, ...". This eggs hatch quickly and the chicks soon fledge and are soon independent, which seems to give the adult birds time for more nesting. Please double check that they only usually raise one brood per year. Snowman (talk) 09:00, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The fact that A and B are true doesn't mean that C is true unless the species is habitually double-brooded. Why do you think Shirihae is wrong, his Sylvia monograph is usually accepted as authoritative? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I could be completely mistaken, but having only one brood per year surprises me, so I requested double checking. Snowman (talk) 14:02, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Baker barely mentions breeding, Simms gives much detail, but doesn't mention double broods, I assume because it's unusual for this genus. Found another explicit reference, added <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "The large numbers and huge range of the Garden Warbler mean that it is classed as Least Concern by the International Union for Conservation of Nature." A and B are true but this does not lead to C being true unless the numbers are declining less that 30% in 10 years or three generations. This issue occurs in the introduction and the "Status" section. I recall bringing up this exact problem in a previous FA. Snowman (talk) 09:00, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Made clear numbers are stable <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * But the population is probably not stable. The IUCN reference says that "Despite the fact that the population trend appears to be decreasing, ..." Snowman (talk) 13:31, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * changed to fairly stable, the decline in Europe is small, Scandinavia is increasing, we don't know about Asia, nothing suggesting a large decline. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This can also be included in the Eurasian Blackcap article. Snowman (talk) 09:20, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "On average, just over 50% of nests are successful, with early breeding and low population density being positive factors." Probably needs clarification. What is an unsuccessful nest? Are the stats that follow this line only about the successful nests? Do the adults make another nest after an unsuccessful nest? Snowman (talk) 09:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I would have thought that it was self-evident that an unsuccessful nest was one from which no young successfully fledged. Do I really need to spell that out? Spelt out. I don't understand the rest of your query, the next sentence explicitly refers to failures, and the rest of the paragraph refers to survival rates of adults and first-year birds, which must by definition have come from successful nests <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If an nest had five eggs and only three chicks fledged would that be a successful nest or an unsuccessful nest? I would really like to know if the adults would make a second nest, if the first nest failed to produce any chicks. If only 50% of the population had fledged young in a breeding season, then to me this would seem to be quite a low proportion for a short lived bird. Perhaps, a nest is successful if it is structurally successful and does not fall onto the ground of fall apart. Perhaps, the parent birds are successful if they raise a brood. Snowman (talk) 13:31, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't see any basis for a nicely constructed but barren nest being considered successful, from that viewpoint the unused cock's nests are successful. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility of renesting if the first nest failed, but I can't find any evidence for this. Any nest that produces fledged young is a success. Three out of five would be pretty good for a passerine. I found a few figures for productivity young/nest, and all were above the replacement figure of 2/nest. I didn't quote a productivity because there is no overall average that can be calculated <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak  - </b> talk to me?  15:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The book talks about "breeding success" on page 34. This article defines a breeding success as a pair that fledge at least one chick from a clutch. I have removed "successful nest" from the article and I note that there was no definition of what a successful nest is in the article. Snowman (talk) 23:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That common sense definition seems to be exactly what I was saying, but your edit clarifies. Incidentally, the Eurasian Blackcap, on which I have masses of information, is also normally single-brooded, so it may be characteristic of the genus. No mention of renesting by failed pairs there either, so if it happens it's not being documented. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:05, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have now found corroborating information about the single brood of the Garden Warbler, but the Eurasian Blackcap regularly has two broods on Cape Verde, where the climate is favourable (see page 34 of the linked book). Snowman (talk) 09:20, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've mentioned in the article that it is sometimes double-brooded in warmer areas <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I wonder if mentioning close relatives would include the new research on the Dohrn's Thrush-Babbler and the clade as in Weak phylogenetic effects on ecological niches of Sylvia warblers. To me it seems incomplete mentioning only the African Hill Babbler. Snowman (talk) 09:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Good find, I hadn't seen this. Now added <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:45, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This can also be included in the Eurasian Blackcap article. Snowman (talk) 09:20, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea, I'll do later.
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:23, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Provisional impression I have not got a lot of time for editing probably until the winter in the UK. I have listed a few copy editing problems above and I have made some edits to the page to make it easier to read. Going on my quick and partial inspection of the article, I anticipate that the article has many more readability problems and I would think that the article is not up to FA standard yet. Snowman (talk) 09:00, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for further comments, all actionable comments addressed I think <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Many of my points have been actioned above. It seems likely to me that the article contains more actionable issues. I am not able to spend a lot of time editing, so I would recommend that more reviewers and preferably specialised copy-editors have a look at the article prior to a decision is made on FA status. Snowman (talk) 23:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have found a little time to read the article up to the "Distribution and habitat" section this morning and I am still finding issues, so I think that there are likely to be more issues in the rest of the article. I would guess that a little more copy-editing is needed prior to FA status being awarded. Snowman (talk) 10:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I am much happier with the article following Yzx's review and amendments following my comments. I think that the only issues which need clarification are about the birds organ weight changes during body building phases (including prior to migration and during stop overs) and when migrating including when migrating across the Sahara dessert. Snowman (talk) 14:34, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Provisional impression 2. Support FA Status. I have tried to be objective, but I may have a conflict of interest, because I edit bird pages. The article may contain minor MoS and copy-editing problems, but I am not aware of any major omissions and think the article has reached FA status. Snowman (talk) 16:31, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I am aware that few Garden Warblers breed in Ireland, but I do not know why only the north of the island of Ireland is coloured yellow to indicate its breeding range there. I also think that the Outer Hebrides are the wrong colour, because the British Trust for Ornithology have breeding records there. Snowman (talk) 23:16, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've adjusted the map, but it's usually the case that ranges are approximate (as it says in the caption). At the edges of the distribution breeding may be intermittent or at low density, making it difficult to choose a definitive line. In the east, surveys are infrequent and coarse-grained, the map could be many miles out in Asia, we have no way of knowing <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:05, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The article includes the rapid incubation and fledging and also the predation, but the connection between these is not provided. Page 34 (linked above) says that predation pressure is likely to have driven selection for this rapid development of the chicks in the nest at the expense of the parents looking after them for 2 weeks after fledging. It also says that chicks can leave the nest before they can fly presumably to reduce the chance of loosing an entire brood to a predator. Snowman (talk) 09:20, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll add shortly <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  06:23, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "..., but conifers and dense plantations are avoided." The atlas of the British Trust for Ornithology book (page 342) says that they also use young conifer woods where there is dense undergrowth of other plants. Snowman (talk) 09:20, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll add that, in in my source too <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * A few days ago I changed sub-Sahara to Sub-Sahara, because of the capitalisation used on the wiki page on the topic. However, I have since seen it in a book as sub-Sahara. I am not sure which is correct or if both are correct. Snowman (talk) 09:50, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My Chambers has lower case, I can't see any logic in capitalising "sub-", it's not even a noun (perhaps it's US?). I hadn't noticed the change, but I'll lc it unless you strongly object <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The atlas of the British Trust for Ornithology notes an absence of Garden Warblers from treeless fenland south of the Wash. Of course, this book only refers to the UK, but I wonder if its absence from fenland is a general phenomenon across its range. Snowman (talk) 09:50, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think fenland here is a bit misleading, the area of Lincs/Norfolk you refer to hasn't been wetland for centuries, despite the name. It's agricultural land largely without trees or hedges, so there is little suitable habitat (often referred to as "agridesert" since monoculture, chemicals and lack of habitat mean that there is little other wildlife either) <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I see. I did no know that. Snowman (talk) 21:28, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I wonder if it would be helpful to have a dedicated paragraph or section on migration. When does the migration each way start and end and how long does it take? I am trying to find out how long the birds have in the breeding grounds to consider the adaptation of usually having one brood per year. Snowman (talk) 13:30, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added the dates of arrival and departure to the breeding section. I'm not sure whether this helps resolve your query, since much of the post-breeding period will be spent fattening up for the long migration to Africa. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:46, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that helps, because it sounds like they only spend about 4 months (or a bit longer) in the "summer" ranges. I expect that the chicks will need to be in top condition and strong for the migration. Snowman (talk) 19:05, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, sub-Saharan winterers have to cross the Med as well as the desert, hence the increase in weight to give them the fuel to fly straight over these obstacles. Four months is actually quite leisurely, Common Swift arrives in the UK in May, one brood, mainly gone by mid-August <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I have some difficulty in interpreting sprite, because I have never heard this word before in ornithology and there are several meanings on the dab page. Snowman (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * changed to nymph <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The origin of woodwardi is not provided, but the origin for the other sub-species is. Snowman (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Will every one know what steel-grey is? At the present time steel-grey is a red link on the wiki. Would it be better to indicate the grey using other descriptive words? Snowman (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I would have thought most people would know what colour steel was, but changed to bluish-grey <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "pale lower mandible." Does this mean pale grey lower mandible? Snowman (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Changed to paler grey <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "There are no plumage differences between the sexes, but juveniles are paler and greyer above, have a buff tone to the underparts and looser plumage." I presume that the small differences in colours of the male, female and juveniles are due to small differences in plumage colour. Snowman (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't see how that sentence can be taken as referring to anything other than plumage, but reordered to make even clearer <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that I misread the original and it was correct at it was, but I shall have a look at it again and try to think why I misread it; nevertheless, it looks better now. Snowman (talk) 17:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Is the male and female the same size and weight? Snowman (talk) 17:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * On average, yes. I would have given figures if there had been significant differences. Most European warblers have virtually no differences in size or appearance, although the Sylvia genus often has plumage diferences, including the Blackcap but not this species. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  18:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have included the information about size as a known fact. Snowman (talk) 21:51, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Can the sub-species with authors be listed in the infobox? Snowman (talk) 21:51, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not a fan of this when there are a lot of ssp, but only two here, so done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  13:52, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * "One brood per year is normal,[29] although a few second broods are known from as far north as Southern Finland, where the summers are relatively short.[17]" A, B and C may be correct, but I do not follow the logic. Finland is in the north, so I would have thought that there would not be much summer time for a second brood. Snowman (talk) 10:21, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want some OR, the summer days are very long in Finland, so the young can be stuffed with insects virtually around the clock, so feeding wouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure what action you are asking me to take. The statement is properly referenced, so I'm reluctant to remove it just because you don't find it convincing. Obviously I'll do so if you don't accept the source <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Does it mean that second broods more common in the north or that second broods also occur in the north despite the short summer there and in fewer numbers in the north. The article does not mention long days. Snowman (talk) 16:55, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It just said "even in the north", presumably because it would be less expected there. I've removed that bit now, since it's disputed, and adding bits about the shortness of the summer and length of the day is making an originally factual statement look increasingly OR. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I have removed the bit about the birds intestines expanding, partly because it sounded vague and also because I have not got time to look at the sources. I would be happy to see it back in the article preferable with details of what parts of the intestine expand - I presume that it is mainly the smooth muscle. I would also be interested to learn if this is when skeletal muscle (ie wing muscles) become larger. I think that it might be better to minimise the detail to the essentials. Snowman (talk) 10:47, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems odd to removed a referenced fact because there isn't sufficient detail. Now the fact doesn't exist in the article at all. I don't know of any accessible source which expands on this. <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have removed it (probably temporarily), because the high profile of mass of the intestine seemed to have the wrong emphasis. Also, " intestines expanding" could refer to them being filled with food. I will attempt to look for references when I have got some to find out if skeletal muscles also increase in weight and try to write a more coherent account, if this can be gleaned from references. At the present time the article says that the birds put on weight and increase adipose tissue. I do not know why the article previously only included mass of the intestine and hinted at fat stores without mentioning skeletal muscle mass as well. Snowman (talk) 16:55, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * OK <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I do not have access to the full papers of the abstracts that I have accessed, so I will not be able to do a re-write of parts of the article; nevertheless, what I have gleaned seems to indicate that organ weight and adipose tissue weight changes are complicated and dedicated section or paragraph to explain the topic could be added. It is interesting to wonder how much detail is needed for FA. When I first heard about non-carbohydrate sources for energy (gluconeogenesus) during bird migration a few years ago, I thought that it was fascinating and interesting from a biochemical point of view and that such rapid organ weight changes were a remarkable adaptation. I would think that a good summary is needed for the article or perhaps the very brief account in the article on the body building phase is enough as is it. I would discourage a sketchy approach using an emphasis on the weight of the intestines. I recall commenting on this topic on a previous FA, but I do not recall which bird it was nor what the consensus was reached then. Any comments? Snowman (talk) 14:25, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've expanded a little using your new source. I would think the balance is about right for this article, which doesn't need to go into great detail on body changes, interesting though they may be <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:18, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that you have got the balance about right. Snowman (talk) 16:31, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I an concerned that sourcing the findings of Shirihai et al (2001) for organ weight reductions during migration appear to have been partly superseded by a 2005 paper by Bauchinger U, Wohlmann A, Biebach H. See Flexible remodeling of organ size during spring migration of the garden warbler (Sylvia borin) by Bauchinger U, Wohlmann A, Biebach H. (2005). It looks like the paper may have some more information on organ "plasticity" than the other papers and books sourced to write the article. Snowman (talk) 14:25, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've moved the ref, since it refers to the return migration. I have JSTOR access, would you like to see the full text? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:18, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * How can I see the full text? Snowman (talk) 16:31, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my error, I'm confusing the two biebach papers, it's the other one I can access, I could email you the link to my copy. I'll go back and sort out the two refs <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:45, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Biebachs sorted out now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  16:51, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * and thanks for provisional support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  19:54, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Support Comments by Yzx
 * that breeds in most of Europe and into western Asia -- the "into" is grammatically incorrect
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * which often competes for territory -- should be "with which it often competes" or "which often competes with it"
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * blotched cream of white eggs -- should this be "or"?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * These warblers maintain a similar mixed diet on their wintering grounds. -- the previous sentence indicates a switch from majority-insect to a majority-fruit diet, not a consistent "mixed diet"
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Should "domestic cat" be capitalized, for consistency in common names?
 * Only bird species are capitalised, no other animal or plant project has a consistent policy. In bird facs we normally lower case all other species. Since it's done consistently, it's accepted practice even in FAs like Titchwell Marsh with all sorts of life forms <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that the MoS favored consistency within an article. That's what it seems to say in Capital_letters. -- Yzx (talk) 06:14, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, capped per your suggestion now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


 * How can the species have been originally described as Motacilla atricapilla but not kept its specific name? This doesn't follow taxonomic rules
 * It's nonsense, refers to the Blackcap, now removed <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Description section uses "race" and "species" to refer to "subspecies"; these terms are not interchangeable
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It is often difficult to separate the species by sight away from the breeding grounds -- do they look more different during the breeding season?
 * In the breeding areas you know what you expect to see (in the UK, the breeding birds are all borin) and a different bird might stand out. In Africa, a Garden Warbler could be either ssp, and without capturing it it's difficult to judge the subtle differences in an individual bird <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It may be better to say that the subspecies are hard to distinguish visually where they co-occur. -- Yzx (talk) 06:14, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * amended as suggested <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


 * but the Booted Warbler is similar in colour, although it is smaller, more delicately built and has a flesh-coloured bill -- should be separate sentence, as it's not a contrast
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * wintering from sub-Saharan Africa southwards to South Africa -- this phrase doesn't make sense, because South Africa is part of sub-Saharan Africa
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * but appear to be more directly across the Mediterranean -- should be "appear to lie more directly" or "appear to be more direct"
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * is due to subtle habitat preferences -- I assume "subtle differences in habitat preferences"?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * between 0.3–1.2 m (1–4 ft) above -- should use "and" here rather than a dash
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * some bird nesting as late as July -- should be plural
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The clutch is typically four or five eggs (range 2–6), which are usually whitish or buff with grey, purple and brown blotches -- whether numbers are numerals or spelled out should be consistent within a sentence
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * a few second broods are known from as far north as Southern Finland -- I'm not clear on why the geographical range is relevant to this statement
 * The summers are shorter in the north, so second broods might be less expected, clarified now <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The return south starts in mid-July -- "return" does not seem to be the appropriate word
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The typical lifespan in two years -- should be "is", also the form of numbers need to be consistent again
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * body mass of amount of deposited fat -- awkward
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Garden Warbler is prized as a gastronomic delicacy -- where?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * it was said "if it were the size of a pheasant, it would be worth an acre of land" -- who said this?
 * Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin, now added <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Article looks comprehensive overall. -- Yzx (talk) 05:41, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments, all done I think <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * your two further comments addressed, thanks <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Article looks good. Changing to support. -- Yzx (talk) 07:27, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  11:21, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Closing comment - I have decided that any remaining issues can be resolved post FAC and will promote this candidate in a few minutes. Graham Colm (talk) 20:06, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Graham Colm (talk) 20:06, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.