Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/George Koval/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 05:25, 12 August 2009.

George Koval

 * Nominator(s): Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 17:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

A short article on a spy that nobody really knew about until 2007. 'Nuff said, read and learn! Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 17:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC) Support Query  Interesting well written story. No mention of his wife after his return, did she predecease him? Did they have kids? Also did he ever renounce his US citizenship?  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  05:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've done a cursory copyedit, and it reads smoothly for the most part. One sentence I was scratching my head about for a while was this: "As Koval built a new life for himself in the Soviet Union, the FBI launched an investigation into his activities in the 1950s". Was the FBI investigating Koval's 1950s activities, or did the investigation take place in the 1950s? If the former, I suggest: "As Koval built a new life for himself in the Soviet Union, the FBI launched an investigation into his 1950s activities"; if the latter, there's a deeper problem because you've got "As" and "1950s" disharmoniously co-existing, and I'd suggest a complete change around: "In the 1950s, the FBI launched an investigation into Koval's activities, while he built a new life for himself in the Soviet Union" (or some such; it's still slightly awkward). &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 17:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've dropped part of the sentence entirely, as its dealt with in the earlier paragraph, and reworded. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 18:17, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I did not find any sources that discussed those matters. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 11:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OK well we can't add what we can't source, but thanks for checking.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  08:45, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Would you mind having another look at your sources for the sentence "According to Arnold Kramish, an American colleague he befriended, it was there that Koval assumed deputy command of the local GRU station." Perhaps the reference has been updated, but I would read this as implying that Kramish knew about the GRU section structure from Koval, whilst the reference implies that he learned it from the FBI.
 * Also "While other spies such as Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and Klaus Fuchs were caught after the war, Koval apparently went unscrutinized for years. Among the reasons given for his maintained cover" implies that he maintained his cover after they had been caught, whilst the sources state that he had returned to Russia in 1948 - well before the other three were caught.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  17:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked a mention in "later years". Kramish and everyone else didn't know anything originally, but he struck up a correspondence with Koval which is how he learned about the covert activities. As for the Rosenberg&Fuchs, there's not meant to be any connection besides that they were Soviet spies; it's just that in contrast to them being caught, Koval escaped and went uninvestigated for years. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 17:28, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've made a couple of tweaks, hope you like them. I think that resolves my earlier query, but in Jan 1941 "a year's deferment from service starting February 1942." Reads to me as a two year deferment or did it end in Feb 42?  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  11:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Good catch, I fixed that. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 11:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments -
 * The "President Putin.." ref in the references is thesame as the current ref 1 (Kremlin.ru)? If so, it should probably be listed in the notes as "President Putin" since that's the first part of the reference. Makes it easier to find.
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, milady, I'm confused. You mean "President Putin" as referred to in the article text? In other words make it out as "Putin" in the named ref rather than Kremlin. ru? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 22:59, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah. The first footnote is presumably refering to the article in the references that's titled "President Vladimir Putin...". I'm just asking that they be consistently titled so that they are easy to find. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's just because cite web prioritizes the title if there's no author. I've tweaked it, thanks. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 23:40, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments - for now. Fascinating stuff and well-written. Quibbles: Where we have "sites producing" in the Lead, how about "sites that produce" or "sites that produced"? Is a "debate team" what we call over here in the UK a "debating society"? WRT the Jewish Autonomous Region(s), I got a little confused. Presumably the one "established by Stalin" had nothing to do with the one mentioned in the sentence above, or did it? I think "cell" might be better than "station" here, it was there that Koval assumed deputy command of the local GRU station. And, here, his motivation for leaving might have been because American counter-intelligence agents had discovered Soviet literature about his parents— why not just write "he might have left because..."? Lastly, I cannot see where the Doyle reference is used in the text. Graham Colm Talk 17:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added some auxiliary Doyle citations, I forgot to add them in a while back with another edit, I guess... only a byte or two change. I've implemented your recommended changes, and cut out Stalin entirely and move the wikilink so it's clear the regions are the same... better? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 18:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I don't envisage any problems with the image, so I a pleased to added my support. Graham Colm Talk 18:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Image review - The sole image looks perfectly fine. NW ( Talk ) 04:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Steve  T • C Looks good overall. I come bearing a list, but it's all quite minor: I made some minor changes; see the intermediate edit summaries for the rationales for each. Otherwise, a nice article on an interesting subject. All the best, Steve  T • C 22:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lead:
 * "After the war, Koval left on a European vacation and never returned to the United States."—sounds like he left on a genuine holiday, rather than its being a ruse so he could get out of the country.
 * Early life:
 * "The carpenter settled in Sioux City ..."—who, Jesus? :p At this point, saying "the carpenter" as a way of avoiding a second use of "Abram Koval" doesn't quite work, as his profession hasn’t been established at this point. Sure, it's implied, but the word still strikes up enough of a query that it interferes with the flow. Fowler: "The effect is to set readers wondering what the significance of the change is, only to conclude there is none."
 * Reworded the starts of the sentences slightly. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "were profiled by an American Communist daily in New York City"—ambiguous; the meaning of "daily" (as in newspaper) only becomes clear in the next sentence with the mention of the journalist.
 * Added "newspaper" after "daily". -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "While Isaya became a champion tractor driver..."—a champion tractor driver? Can you confirm?
 * The source says he became a "champion tractor driver". Not being in the ultra-competitive Soviet heavy farm machinery circuit, I have no idea what that entails beyond that. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Recruitment and espionage
 * "Later, Koval was recruited by the Soviet Main Intelligence Directorate"—a pity the section has to start out without a scene-setting date. I presume that even an approximate date isn't known? Would the sources stretch to saying "Between 193[n] and 1939, Koval..."?
 * unfortunately it would. The exact dates, or even a year range, is never specified. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "According to Arnold Kramish, an American colleague he befriended, and who contacted him over half a century later in 2000 and started corresponding, it was there that Koval assumed deputy command of the local GRU cell."—the mid-sentence digression is ungainly, makes the sentence too long and obscures its focus. Perhaps we can cull some of that without losing the intended meaning: "According to Arnold Kramish, an American colleague he befriended and with whom he re-established contact in 2000, it was there that Koval assumed deputy command of the local GRU cell."
 * reworded to your suggestion. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Inconsistent use of "US" / "United States".
 * fixed. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Later years
 * "Eventually, Koval managed to obtain a teaching job there, where students laughed at his foreign pronunciations for technical terms."—seems to focus too much on the students' finding his pronunciations amusing, as if that's all that happened there, the teaching is considered almost an afterthought. Perhaps find some way of de-emphasising?
 * I removed the "where" bit and replaced it with a semi colon to try and break it up, is that a bit better? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:ELLIPSES is a little unclear on what should be done with the last sentence. Spaced, as the guideline seems to recommend, looks very strange.
 * Jiggered it (put punctuation outside). -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Think I hit all your issues. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 00:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You missed the top one. :-) Oh, and "On November 3, 2007, he received his last award"—wondering what "last" is doing there, as there were no previous awards. Steve  T • C 07:44, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed the award bit, and reworded the first one ever so slightly. Better? -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 17:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Support. Not a lot more to say than that. :-) The prose is fine, the image correctly licensed and the article as seemingly comprehensive as it can be for the subject. The minor concerns I listed above have been dealt with speedily too. Nice work, Steve  T • C 23:12, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Support but with comments - 1. 'This group, organized by American Jewish Communists in 1924, supported through money and publicity the development of the "Jewish Autonomous Region"' There is no verb. Put a "was" before "supported" and it can be a sentence. 2. Quote in the middle of the paragraph beginning "The Koval family" needs a citation directly following the quote per MoS. 3. "Though the United States was still neutral in World War II," Should be "during the beginning of World War II". Ottava Rima (talk) 19:46, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I implemented your other tweaks, but I'm pretty sure #1 is a sentence: "This group [...] supported [...] the development of the JAR." If it's a bit wordy I can try chunking it out. -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 21:41, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Supported through" makes it not a verb. See: "I am supported". The verb is "to be" (i.e. "am"). Ottava Rima (talk) 21:48, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But then it reads "This group, organized by American Jewish Communists in 1924, was supported through money and publicity the development of the "Jewish Autonomous Region"—the Communist answer to the Palestine project then being undertaken by the Zionism movement"... it doesn't sound like "the development..." and what comes after it makes any sense with "was". -- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 22:16, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Steve seems to have fixed it. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:11, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.