Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Giant mouse lemur/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 15:41, 31 July 2015.

Giant mouse lemur

 * Nominator(s): – Maky  « talk » 22:44, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

This article is about a little-understood genus of nocturnal lemur form Madagascar. This is my second attempt at FAC with this nomination, after the first one was suspended due to insufficient feedback. Hopefully more people will take interest this time. – Maky  « talk » 22:44, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Support - My comments during the last nomination were solved, so I have little to add, but I will contribute with an image review below. FunkMonk (talk) 14:19, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Image review

 * All photos appear to be selfmade by Wikimedia or Flickr users, and have appropriate licenses. The two illustrations are also appropriately sourced and licensed. FunkMonk (talk) 14:30, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! Btw, I added one more photo if you want to check it off. With the announcement of a study showing M. zaza has the largest relative testicle size of any primate, I contacted the researchers and they uploaded photos for our use.  Everything should still be good since she uploaded and released the photos herself. –  Maky  « talk » 15:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting, sourcing looks fine, but I'm wondering if the caption should perhaps mention what's being done to the animal? FunkMonk (talk) 15:27, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I had put it in the alt, but I will try to rework it. – Maky  « talk » 16:10, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Aa77zz
This is a well prepared article by an experienced editor and I can't find much to criticize. I do not have access to the two heavily cited books and thus cannot check the content. I've made a few edits to the article - please check that you agree.
 * Thanks for the review and help on finding all those typos! I really appreciate it. – Maky  « talk » 07:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "further to the north in the Sambirano and Sahamalaza regions." I don't think you should use the word region - for administrative purposes Madagascar is divided into 22 regions and these don't include Sambirano and Sahamalaza.
 * Hmmm... That's what the sources call them. The sources may be referring ecological regions or botanical regions.  I've done my best to fix it. –  Maky  « talk » 07:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "and around Ambato in northern Madagascar,[8][15] part of the Sambirano region.[8]" I cannot find this Ambato. There is a district of fr:Ambato-Boeny more to the south. Is it near the town of Ambanja on the Sambirano River?
 * All I know for certain (per one of the sources) is that it's in northwestern Madagascar. (I fixed the article from saying "northern".)  Sometimes finding towns in Madagascar is like trying to find Springfield in the United States... but without online or comprehensive print sources. –  Maky  « talk » 07:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't see it here. Aa77zz (talk) 09:02, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've tried finding towns in Madagascar using online maps, and it is very difficult to find anything with absolute certainty. I did a search and found a few maps that pinpointed regions in the northwest, but "Ambato" was not named on the map.  Other maps point to an Ambato near the Antananarivo, near the center of the island.  It seems like there's also one or more Ambato rivers, so it might be referring to the region around one of those.  It's hard to say. –  Maky  « talk » 02:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The sentence "The southern limit of its range is the Maeverano River and extends to the Mahavavy River in the north." sounds odd to me. Aa77zz (talk) 12:21, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed. – Maky  « talk » 07:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Are these articles useful?
 * This source appears to reiterate everything already noted in other sources and this article. – Maky  « talk » 02:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Aa77zz
 * This article goes into slightly finer details about the social structure of the northern giant mouse lemur. However, because this is a genus-level article, I think it should be saved for the species article. –  Maky  « talk » 02:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This article goes into slightly finer details about the social structure of the northern giant mouse lemur. However, because this is a genus-level article, I think it should be saved for the species article. –  Maky  « talk » 02:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

(talk) 08:36, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding those articles, though! – Maky  « talk » 02:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Support - the article satisfies the criteria. Well done. Aa77zz (talk) 04:00, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Another article that has just been published:
 * See also undated BBC article here. Aa77zz (talk) 18:00, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I saw that yesterday.  I'll add the information after work.  –  Maky  « talk » 19:20, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The material has been added. Please let me know how it looks. –  Maky  « talk » 06:55, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Comments Support from Cas Liber

 * read through this the other day, was on a smartphone and forgot to log in and comment...returning now.....looking good....


 * Giant mouse lemurs are relatively small cheirogaleids,[9] though they are more than three times larger than the smallest members of the family, the mouse lemurs - I think the "Though" works better at the front of the first clause rather than the second.
 * Fixed. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 06:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Their tail is bushy and long, measuring around 300 mm (12 in), which is longer than their head-body length, which averages 233 mm (9.2 in) - the two "which"s are a little disconcerting, could be reworded to something like, "At around around 300 mm (12 in), their bushy and long tail is longer than their head-body length, which averages 233 mm (9.2 in)"
 * Great catch and excellent suggestion. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 06:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 *  The northern giant mouse lemur also has a shorter tail, shorter canine teeth, and is generally larger. - you'd generally say it was larger first (the most obvious attribute) and then the other traits.
 * Fixed. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 06:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

These are just quibbles though and easy to fix. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I appreciate your helpful comments. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 06:38, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok all good - support Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:40, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Support Comments from Cwmhiraeth
The article seems comprehensive and well written. Apart from making a trivial correction, I had to read a third of the way through the article before I could find anything to quibble about!
 * "Like other cheirogaleids, the dental formula for giant mouse lemurs is ; on each side of the mouth, top and bottom, there are two incisors, one canine, three premolars, and three molars—a total of 36 teeth." - This sentence seems to state the same thing twice.
 * Yes, I agree. However, this stems from a long-standing debate where scientific lingo is seen as too technical, so it supposedly needs to be explained.  (Wiki links aren't enough, apparently.)  I was asked to add this at some point... probably in another recent lemur FAC.  Personally, I'd like to remove it, too.  Maybe some other reviewers can comment to help establish some consensus on this matter. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Would it be possible to include the new population reported by the WWF in 2010 on the distribution map?
 * I would, but I'm not 100% sure where Ranobe is, and I don't trust web searches since many villages of the same name exist all over Madagascar, and often within 100km of each other. I just don't have any map to work off of.  <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Could you mention where the "Duke Lemur Center" is located.
 * Done. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "Although vocalizations are a primary form of social communication." - Perhaps this should be "the" rather than "a".
 * Done. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "Females start reproducing after ten months, while males develop functional testicles by their second mating season" - It might be better to state these time durations in a more comparable way, "second mating season" being rather imprecise.
 * The source isn't more specific. It may be safe to say 21 months of age (two years minus the 3 month gestation), but I feel uncomfortable stating it that precisely given the differences between the two species.  I also have to consider that the source used for this statement was written at a time when the genus was considered to have only one species.  Your thoughts? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "insect excretions" - Do you mean excretions or secretions? They are not the same thing.
 * The insects produce excess sugar water as waste (out the back end), so I'm pretty sure excretion is correct. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "cochineal insects" - Cochineal insects live on cacti in Central America as far as I know.
 * Hmmm... That's what the sources say. They don't give scientific names.  However, cacti have been introduced in Madagascar and are invasive, particularly in the southern part of the island.  Looking around, it looks like Dactylopius coccus was introduced to the island in the 1920s to control the cactus populations.  If we can find a reliable source, it might make for a good addition to the Cochineal FA. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * What happened in connection with the captive breeding program at DLC? Were individuals released into the wild?
 * The sources don't say, but from my own personal knowledge, I can say that Mirza is a classic example of the potential short-sightedness of captive breeding programs. It was initially successful, but at the time giant mouse lemurs weren't considered endangered.  Since they risked flooding available space at breeding facilities, and since other species were considered more critical, their captive breeding program was probably shelved.  Now that they're facing extinction, it's simply too late.  Most of the population died off from old age.  It's one of several of the DLC's failed breeding programs, though this one was due to poor planning and mangement, versus simpona breeding (large-bodied sifakas like the diademed sifaka and the golden-crowned sifaka), which failed because the species are too specialized to live in captivity.  Needless to say, the DLC does not publish anything about these issues.  In fact, they have threatened me in the past over simply discussing their breeding programs on Wikipedia, despite using reliable sources, including their own website.  <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That's all for now. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:22, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">– Maky  « talk » 04:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your full responses. The unresolved points I raised above are unimportant and I have no hesitation in supporting this nomination on the grounds of comprehensiveness and prose. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:11, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Source review and spot check
A'coming along....


 * references all formatted consistently


 * offline book sources accepted in good faith


 * material faithful to (and with no close paraphrasing of) ref 2 (all 6 cites)

more later. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking this on. I'll be watching for any issues you find. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 06:32, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Whoops! Forgot about this...ok now where was I......


 * material faithful to (and with no close paraphrasing of) ref 16 (all 4 cites)


 * material faithful to (and with no close paraphrasing of) ref 33 (2 cites)

Right, spot checking of three online refs (and 12 items) looks good. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:49, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Closing comment
I'll promote this but pls note there are quite a few duplinks -- pls check with this script and decide which if any are really needed. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:41, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I fixed most of the dup links, but a few link multiple anatomical words to just one or two articles, so they're kind of needed. I also treat the cladograms like illustrations and link independently of the body text (in case people ignore one or the other).  I hope that's okay. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.1em 0.1em 0.3em; font-family: fantasy, cursive, Serif">–  Maky  « talk » 18:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 15:41, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.