Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Glass Joe/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 20:12, 25 May 2011.

Glass Joe

 * Nominator(s): New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 23:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because it fulfills all of the notability criteria, and has gone through copyedits from two experienced users so far. New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 23:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - not to be discouraging, but I don't feel this article yet meets the FA criteria (which are distinct from the notability criteria). Here are some examples of concerns:
 * What makes this a high-quality reliable source? This? This?
 * Scott Jones, I found some examples of his reliability; however, I cannot find my way to it. The other two, however, are listed as reliable sources here. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 00:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You need to include author and page number(s) for book refs, and page number(s) for magazine refs with no web link
 * Included in the applicable ones. I cited the Nintendo Power article personally, and it does not cite an author. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:20, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Be consistent in whether you include publisher location or not
 * Fixed; some of the stuff that I've seen doesn't have location information that I can see, so I opted to remove it from the Nintendo Power source. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:20, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * File:Glass_Joe2.png needs copyright info and evidence thereof
 * The specific piece of art can be found on the boxart for Punch-Out!! (Wii). - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 00:42, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I added IGN as a source for the image. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:20, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:MOS edits needed, in particular with wikilinking
 * The article's prose needs editing for grammar, clarity and flow. Some examples: "GamesRadar's Mikel Reparaz including him in his list"; "Chris Scullion wrote that while Glass Joe could not normally "fight sleep", they were unable to beat him at first in Title Defense mode, which got rid of any worries they had about how Next Level Games handled the series"; "shooting croissants from himself when he is knocked out"
 * I only just noticed that, even after looking at it for like, seven seconds. Sometimes those little things go unnoticed. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 01:01, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The article's organization needs to be tweaked: there is some overlap between sections, and "Difficulty" doesn't seem to fit as a subsection of "Cultural impact". You might consider adding a section about Critical reception. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:26, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean overlap? As for the Critical reception section, I think that because all reception, except for the Cultural impact reception, corresponds to his stereotypes and difficulty, it might be best to not have it. I could only do a Critical reception section if it housed the Racial stereotypes and Difficulty sections. What do you think? - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 03:25, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In all honesty, it's not that remarkable of an article. Then again, it is a pretty bland subject to begin with. Only the "Concept and Creation" and "Appearances" sections are somewhat informative. The other sections are just namedroppings of various video game "experts" giving their supposedly qualified opinions, which I guess is a necessary evil if you want a pop-culture-related article to reach "Good" status. I'm surprised there's no mention of Glass Joe's 1 Win/99 Loses record and the only section that describes Joe as an obstacle in the game is the "Difficulty" section. Jonny2x4 (talk) 06:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is some other stuff that could be mentioned, such as the fact that he can be knocked out with the right timing in one punch, his merchandise, or his brief appearance in the Captain N cartoon. However, aside from the KO mention (which would, of course, be mentioned only if it's discussed in a non-guiding way by reliable sources), I'm a bit light on sources for that information. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 07:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried to add more detail from the sources used in the article (such as more detailed demonstrations of his stereotypes). Does this look better at all? Also, while a bit rough, I'll make sure to cleanup whatever gets added. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 07:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I really think this sort of information should be added- the fact he can be knocked out in a single punch is relevant to the gameplay section, while an appearance on a cartoon/appearance in merchandise would add to the appearances section. Are there literally no sources? J Milburn (talk) 08:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that one of the GameDaily sources might mention it, but the Archive link is being a jerk, so I can't verify it right away. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 09:21, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Oppose – The amount of issues below is a lot more than I'd expect to see in an article of this size. Some of them will be easy to fix, but the last, and most important, one will take some effort.
 * Well, I gotta say, I'd much rather have it fail for low quality than fail because no one cared to review it. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "and made his first console for the Nintendo Entertainment System...". First console what? This concerns me because I'd think the second sentence of a lead would be spotless.
 * Jinnai fixed it AFAICS. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Concept and creation: "He design is notably skinnier than the player-character Little Mac's." "He" → "His".
 * Sorry about that; I added it just last night. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "most of Glass Joe's dialogue consits of him counting to ten in French." "consits"? Try "consists".
 * Same as above. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "He holds a record of one win to 99 losses." This may be the sports fan in me, but I think "to" should be replaced by "and". "one win and 99 losses" sounds a little more proper.
 * Same as above. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Cultural impact: The comma after "and the players on the North Penn football team" should be a period instead.
 * Fixed. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Difficulty: "and wrote that it was more memorable than the in-game fight with real life boxer Mike Tyson." I feel that it should be clarified that this was in the Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! version of the game only. If I recall, he wasn't in the later NES Punch-Out!! due to licensing issues.
 * Pretty sure that GameFAQs (refs 2 and 3) isn't considered a reliable source because it accepts user submissions. Another source for the development information would be preferable.
 * GameFAQs is considered situational here, as release dates have to be verified and approved by its staff, though I imagine sometimes they may make mistakes. If I can find anything else I can use instead, I'll replace it. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ref 23 needs a date of access.
 * Fixed. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Publisher in ref 33 (Boys' Life) should be italicized, as it's a printed publication.
 * Fixed. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Does the book in ref 35 have an ISBN number? If so, Google Books will have it in the site's profile on the book, and it would be a welcome inclusion here.
 * I looked; when using the ISBN number, should I use "1587363496, 9781587363498" or just one part of it? - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Enough of the pedantic stuff from me for once. Time for a serious general comment. The impression I'm getting from the other reviewers is that they think there just isn't much here in terms of content. To a certain extent, I agree with them. One of them touched on, but didn't elaborate, on what I believe is the main issue: the amount of quotations. Most pop culture articles have a liberal amount of quotes, and I have no issue with that. However, I do take issue when seemingly half of an article consists of quotes. Writing that isn't just reviewer opinion is lacking. I feel that more paraphrasing would help in this aspect. In Critical reception, barely a sentence goes by without a quote of some sort. This leaves two distinct impressions: that there's not much to say about the subject and that the quotes are serving as padding to make the article long enough to be viable at FAC. Just paraphrasing some of these quotes would go a long way toward making the content seem more substantial.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 15:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, this is definitely helpful. I've never been the greatest paraphraser (always worried that I'm being too close). While the article may have been too soon for FAC, it definitely helped me more than the Peer review I started for it. I'll just have to learn how to paraphrase better, and hopefully that will significantly improve the article. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment:
 * Did some minor copyediting. I have to agree with Giants2008's last point. There are far too many quotes. 陣 内 Jinnai 17:01, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.