Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Goodbye, Michael/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 15:55, 22 November 2011.

Goodbye, Michael

 * Nominator(s): NoD&#39;ohnuts (talk) 15:09, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it has reached the standards a featured article. It also marks the leave of Steve Carell from The Office which has been named one of the best sitcoms of the decade by multiple critics. It has been named a Good Article and recently received a Peer Review. I'll be willing to make any edits if you find any, which you probably will as this is my first featured article candidate. I really appreciate your feedback, thank you very much! NoD&#39;ohnuts (talk) 17:06, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Oppose at this time - I commend your efforts with this article, but I believe it does not currently meet the FA criteria. Here are some specific concerns:
 * Prose needs work to improve flow. For example, "It included an additional 7 minutes of material including David Wallace's deleted guest appearance" - repetitive phrasing
 * Lots of Manual of Style issues - inconsistent italicization and wikilinking, hyphen/dash use, etc
 * Reference formatting should be more consistent
 * What makes this a high-quality reliable source? This?
 * File:Michael_and_Pam_saying_goodbye.png needs full source URL and copyright holder. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:40, 12 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I have removed some of the Officetally references, but I believe the series episode poll should be left in order to show fans reaction to the episode . Also AOLtv were used in previous good and featured articles i believe. NoD&#39;ohnuts (talk) 22:21, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Note: The peer review is still open. Please close it. Brianboulton (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Preliminary comments
 * It's a bit short for a 50 minute episode; normally they run about 30-35KB; look at, a rather unremarkable episode of Lost; for a groundbreaking episode such as this, there should be more in the way of production details.
 * Plot summary is not too long (recommended words-per-minute is 8 to 12).
 * I'll have a look over this in more detail later today. Sceptre (talk) 03:23, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Let me just say the episode was about 30 minutes without commercials, it ran in a 50 minute timeslot with commercials. So the plot summary is about the correct length NoD&#39;ohnuts (talk) 21:49, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Review: That it's 30 minutes without commercials makes it easier for me to review.
 * I echo Nikki's comments about the prose, and I would strongly suggest going to the Guild of Copyeditors and requesting an expedited coypedit.
 * The general practice when describing length of television episodes is to do it without commercials, as episodes from 38 to 60 minutes air in hour-long slots depending on the channel; either use "An extended 30-minute episode" or "aired in a 50-minute slot".
 * The plot summary should be slimmed to about 350 to 400 words; remember that plot summaries are effectively derivative works and the FA criteria emphasises that there should not be any more non-free content than necessary.
 * The audience is generally not a reliable source: they're not experts, they have no oversight, and have objectivity issues; this is pretty much exemplified with user review sections for Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, where about one sixth of reviews were found to be obvious trolling by fans of the other series, and a lot more obviously not proper reviews at all. Hence audience reactions are allowed only when discussed by a relaible source, and I don't have any indication that Officetally is one.
 * The rationale for File:Michael and Pam saying goodbye.png simply isn't good enough, and would probably end up with the image being deleted at FFD.
 * Oppose. Due to issues 4 and 5, I must oppose and suggest withdrawal. Sceptre (talk) 21:58, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and by the way, it's best to use screenshots from the original stream, or a close copy, instead of using downscaled streams. As I'm sure that The Office, like any currently airing series, has been in HD for years, a 400*225 screenshot from the HD stream would give more fidelity than the current 624*352 screenshot (in the same way plugging a PS3 into the HDMI input of a 16 inch TV looks better than if it was put into the SCART input of a 40 inch TV). Sceptre (talk) 22:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.