Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Gravity Bone/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by 10:02, 4 March 2013 (UTC).

Gravity Bone

 * Nominator(s): — ΛΧΣ  21  18:13, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Gravity Bone is a freeware first-person adventure video game developed by Brendon Chung under his video game studio, Blendo Games, and released in August 2008. The game was developed using a modified version of id Software's id Tech 2 engine—originally used for Quake 2—and incorporates music by film director Wong Kar-wai. Gravity Bone received critical acclaim from video game journalists. It was called "an experience worth playing", and received comparisons to games such as Team Fortress 2 and Portal. The game was praised for its cohesive story and atmosphere and its ability to catch the player's interest over a very short time span without feeling rushed or incomplete. With permission from delegate, I am nominating this article for featured status. Regards. — ΛΧΣ  21  18:13, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Brief comments

 * Comments - This article looks good so far. Keep up the good work. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:47, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Hahc21. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment (as semi-involved, while I didn't work on this article, I'm working on its sequel and so sorta helping here). Brendan Chung (the one guy behind Blendo Games) has previously put free screenshots at my request of his other games (eg Atom Zombie Smasher) for purposes of WP. I don't know how much of a line I have to him directly nowadays (now that he's all "important" and stuff :)  ) but will try to see if I can get him to do so.  I don't expect this to hold up any issues on this FAC, since normally game screenshots are not replaceable with free, but this will probably help if I could. --M ASEM  (t) 14:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Good news! I just got in touch with him, and he's put more shots from this game and his other ones up on Flickr under a free license. . --M ASEM (t) 23:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * So in terms of an image check, at this point, all images used are properly free - the game's logo is just typefaces and thus fails originality and uncopyrightable, and the two other images are appropriately free. --M ASEM (t) 17:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yay. Thank you Masem for finding the free images :) — ΛΧΣ  21  17:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Good work, Masem. For the record, I would probably prefer this image because it shows a situation that can actually occur in-game. The current image seems to be from an off-balcony angle that might only be possible with dev commands. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:08, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The gameplay section is a bit confusing to me. I don't get a clear sense of what players do beyond the fact that they're not told much. The thumbnail picture is the only place I learn that there is no HUD, certain details are repeated (At the end of the game, the player-controlled spy is killed by an unknown woman after chasing her through the last half of the second level. and Finishing the level triggers a set of final sequences of events and the game ends with the sudden death of the player's character.) and plot and gameplay are interwoven in I think a detrimental fashion; it might be better to go over the scant plot details first and then transition to a more fleshed out explanation of what players do. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 01:01, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will work on this tomorrow. — ΛΧΣ  21  01:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Support : It generally looks good, were there any particularly critical reviews to give a balance or were they all generally positive in tone? Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * They were all positive. I was surprised I didn't find any negative review of the game... — ΛΧΣ  21  23:33, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough then, changed to support. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:36, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - Wong Kar Wai is a director, not a composer. The music may be lifted from one of his films, but he did not compose it.  Chances are the lead is incorrect. - hahnch e n 23:45, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. It now reads " incorporates music from films by director Wong Kar-wai." — ΛΧΣ  21  03:38, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The same phrase and issue occurs in the Development section. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:44, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. — ΛΧΣ  21  20:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Support. I don't see further issues with the article. It surely does think that it meets the FA criteria. Good work ! — Tomíca (T2ME) 20:53, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! :D — ΛΧΣ  21  20:54, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments by JDC808

 * Not bad at all. The only thing that really stuck out to me was the lead, second paragraph. "The game was praised for its cohesive story and atmosphere and its ability..." I think this should be either "cohesive story, atmosphere, and its ability" or "cohesive story and atmosphere, and its ability". -- JDC808   ♫  02:28, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I have fixed that now :) — ΛΧΣ  21  02:39, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Something else I just noticed. The lead, second paragraph says "A direct sequel, Thirty Flights of Loving, was released in 2012." but in the Sequel section, it says it's not a direct sequel. -- JDC808  ♫  04:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ups. Taken care of it :) — ΛΧΣ  21  04:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Still see an issue. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term. Does "direct sequel" not refer to story? I always thought if it was a direct sequel, it was referring to its story. In the Sequel section, it says "The game, though not a direct sequel in story to Gravity Bone..." The page for Thirty Flights just says sequel. -- JDC808  ♫  04:55, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * True. Fixed then. — ΛΧΣ  21  14:23, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Support The only issues that I really saw have been fixed. Article looks good. :) -- JDC808  ♫  18:43, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments by Axem Titanium
This is a great little article about a great little game and I applaud you for attempting to improve it. I would love to support when these comments are addressed. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:44, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * HUD should be wikilinked and not abbreviated.
 * Done this one. — ΛΧΣ  21  21:19, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "The first level of Gravity Bone is disguised as a tutorial system" - I think this is backwards. Isn't the tutorial system disguised as the first level?
 * Hmm, both ways work. I will use yours :)
 * In the lead, "an experience worth playing" is in quotation marks, implying a direct quote, but when this phrase is mentioned in the Reception section, it is not in quotes and the phrase does not appear in Onyett's article. Onyett's article is also specifically not called a review.
 * True, it is a preview or impressions. For grammatical and *makes sense* purposes, I changed it to preview. And, well, ups. I synthesized his comment there in a way I should not have. I have fixed this. Take a look :)
 * What is Game Tunnel and why is it reliable?
 * Game Tunnel was a website dedicated to independent games. It had editorial control and oversight, and was founded in 2002 by Russell Carroll. Carroll is a video game developer that worked as Game Director for Reflexive Studios. Website IndieGames covered him (as well as the studio) on this interview. Carroll, as wel as the site, Game Tunnel, seemes to be very significant at the indie gaming scece. IndieGames called Game Tunnel's GoTY awards as a "brilliant compendium". He has appeared at several Indie events talkign about development of games and game Tunnel GameSetWatch. Here is more coverage for the website: PR Web, Cinema Blend, World of Goo wins Game of the Year at Game Tunnel's 7th Annual Independent Game of the Year Awards (MCV United Kingdom), Aquaria wins Game of the Year at Game Tunnel's 6th Annual Independent Games of the Year Awards (MCV United Kingdom). Also, the website became a Magazine sometime in 2006, as reported by TGI Source, Broken Pencil. Game Tunnel's history has even been covered by Joystiq and GamesIndustry, the latter which named the website "one of the first websites that focused on the indie gaming scene." It was bough by Indie Game Magazine in 2011, as reported by GamesIndustry. I think that this is enough not only to meet reliability but notability. I should write an article about Games Tunnel. — ΛΧΣ  21  21:19, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "Citizen Abel" is not explained anywhere in the article, thus, it is confusing when his name is mentioned later, particularly in the Sequel section where the reader would have to know that the main char of Gravity Bone's name is Citizen Abel in order to understand the significance of the sentence.
 * The main character is not named Citizen Abel. What Citizen Abel is is explained in the Development section: "based on a series of Quake 2 maps entitled Citizen Abel".
 * If that's the case, they you have to explain that in 30 Flights, "Citizen Abel" refers to the main character's name, not a Quake 2 map. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:05, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Then yes; I'd have to fix that. The developer of the game, Brendon Chung, said that Citizen Abel is not the name of the character. He also said that the character has no name. I think this is pretty easy to understand from the development section. Also, I see that Masem mistakenly wrote that Citizen Abel was the character on the Sequel section. I have fixed that. — ΛΧΣ  21  19:25, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I will take a look at the rest tomorrow. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:14, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks good. There are some other issues by other reviewers, but I'm confident they will get addressed. Support. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:42, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I will diligently solve the rest of the issues :) Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh at first, it was not my intention. — ΛΧΣ  21  23:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Source Spot-check
I've checked the first few sources in the article, and have already found several problems. In the gameplay section, the source does not mention that the player character is a spy. This source doesn't say anything about chasing a woman, or the player character being killed by her. Also, while the reviewer of that source said he did not understand the plot, this does not support the claim that "The game was designed to keep the plot elements as scarce as possible." --FutureTrillionaire (talk) 19:34, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I am still dealing a bit with them to make sure they are accurate. Although, some plot elements don't need to be sourced, per the common guidelines from the Wikiproject. — ΛΧΣ  21  03:37, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A primary source cannot support a statement such as "The game was designed to keep the plot elements as scarce as possible", unless it's actually mentioned in the game what the developers' intentions were.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I was not talking about that one. I am looking for the ref that covers that one in the list :) — ΛΧΣ  21  04:56, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:32, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Only as a comment to help (I don't know immediately off the top of my head), some of the sourcing for Thirty Flights may help towards clarifying these. --M ASEM (t) 19:17, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

For the development section, in the interview, Chung didn't exactly say he had a "passion for films" in general. He said he liked Wong's films specifically. This should be clarified. Also Wong is the guy's last name, not Kar-wai. All the "Kar-wai"s in the article should be changed to "Wong".--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 02:11, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will take care of this after the Grammys are over :) — Hahc21 talk 02:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. I have taken care of this. Thanks! — Hahc21 talk 15:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The part about the sequel's non-linear storytelling being a "novel use of the video game medium" doesn't seem to be supported by the source. --FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:58, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is a reliable source that - while it doesn't say that in so few words - has the message. (See third paragraph, the one under the 2nd picture). --M ASEM (t) 23:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I have replaced the reference. — ΛΧΣ  21  23:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Support - Source spot-check complete. All the issues I've brought up have been addressed.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:43, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments from Hurricanehink
Support (stumbled here after checking out my FAC) Just some missing details that I think the article needs. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 19:39, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Take care of the unsourced statement.
 * I will, sir :) Unsource statement removed. Don't know from where I took that.
 * Could you explain somewhere what "Citizen Abel" is? I see "and was based on a series of Quake 2 maps entitled Citizen Abel" - but that doesn't explain why it's in the image at the top-right of the article (or does it?!)
 * I will try to better explain what does Chung said about this. I am tired of seeing sources stating that Citizen Abel is the name of the character. I believed it was the name of the character too until Chung explicitly statet that the character had no name, and that Citizen Abel was... well, read it on the article when I fix it :P
 * I think it should still be clearer. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I did my best to explain it clearer on the gameplay section. — ΛΧΣ  21  03:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It was called "an experience worth playing" - by whom?
 * Hmmm *goes and looks at the sources* Fixed.
 * From the description, it seems the game is very short, with two levels. Is that right?
 * Yep :) Two levels, 15-minute playthrough. Pretty short indeed.
 * I think the game's brevity should be emphasized somewhere. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I added a mention of its length on the Gameplay section. — ΛΧΣ  21  03:14, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "The player controls a spy" - probably add "unnamed" here.
 * Oh gosh, Indeed. Fixed.
 * Err, given what I've read elsewhere, is that correct? Are you sure Citizen Abel isn't the character's name? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Err, Brendon Chung clearly stated on the interview: "It was based on a series of Quake 2 maps I did ten years ago called 'Citizen Abel'." He also stated, when asked if "In Gravity Bone, do you play Citizen Abel, or is that just a reference to your old maps?", that "That doesn't really play a part in the game. You never really see the character, the character never talks, it's just a label I had." With this, it is clear that the character is not named Citizen Abel. — ΛΧΣ  21  03:14, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You have three consecutive sentences starting with "Cheng" in "Development" :/
 * Will take care of this :) Fixed.
 * Given you had " as an experience worth playing" quoted in the lede, it should probably be quoted down in "Reception".
 * I will, thanks for noting that too. Fixed. See above.
 * I didn't say you had to get rid of that quote, though. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * it was original research... not a quote >.< — ΛΧΣ  21  03:08, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Were there any number reviews (aside from The Refined Geek)? Like 9/10? Stars? Thumbs up?
 * Nothing :/ Just positive comments with the exception you noted below.
 * And speaking of The Refined Geek - "awarding them a score of 8 out of 10 " - was that for each game, or for the series as a whole?
 * For each game :)
 * That should be emphasized then. I'd say "awarding them each a score..." --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21  03:14, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * commenting, "The cohesiveness - should "the" really be capitalized here?
 * No. Will fix that. Fixed.
 * Did the game get any mention in any newspapers? Everything seems to be online. Also, was there any negative reception?
 * No, it was not mentioned in newspapers; and sadly, no, all reviews were positive.
 * Well, I did a Google news search anyway - here is a simple Google news search that shows some more hits on the game, some of which foreign language, but one English (including one with a review of 9/10, so that 8/10 review wasn't the only one with a number score). --♫ [[User:Hurricanehink|Hurricanehink] ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * GiantBomb is not reliable :/ — ΛΧΣ  21  03:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * How is that not reliable, but Refined Geek is? I didn't think video games had many reliable sources :P ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:24, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Weird thing and big discussion at WP:VG. Result is that, given the lack of proper editorial oversight, GiantBomb cannot be used at FA level :) — ΛΧΣ  21  17:22, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I notice, in the entire article, you don't say where the game was released, and how. You say it was released on Windows in the infobox, but there isn't a source or mention of that. Was the game really not available on a Mac? And how did people purchase it? And for what price?
 * The game is free, available on the developer's website, blendogames.com. It was not sent to Steam, not released under a price. It has no Mac version, or any other version but Windows. It's a very indie release that got the attention of the mainstream VG websites for its unique style etc :)
 * Is any of that in the article? The first sentence says it's freeware, but I don't see where in the body of the article (and with what source) it says it's free. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Answered some. I will fix the rest as soon as I get ready to on my PC. — ΛΧΣ  21  19:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks for the replies. I supported, but still had a question over GiantBomb. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:24, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * To respond to your point about GiantBomb, editorial and review content that comes from its paid editorial staff is reliable. The link you mentioned above is a user blog that is hosted on the site, which is not considered reliable. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:07, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 14:47, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.