Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Haflinger (horse)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain 03:06, 6 December 2010.

Haflinger (horse)

 * Nominator(s): Dana boomer (talk) 00:02, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Every member of this Austrian/Italian horse breed traces back to one foundation stallion born in 1874, but scientists as recently as 2009 have found little genetic evidence of inbreeding. The breed has nearly become extinct several times, but today maintains a healthy population in many countries. Thanks go to the other Equine WP members who have helped to tweak the article into its current state, and Malleus, who has performed an awesome final copyedit. Thanks in advance for your comments! Dana boomer (talk) 00:02, 13 November 2010 (UTC) Addendum - this article has undergone a pre-FAC image review by Jappalang and all images were cleared. Dana boomer (talk) 13:48, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Sources comment: All sources and citations fine. Spot checks revealed no problems. Brianboulton (talk) 12:30, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Brian! Dana boomer (talk) 13:47, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Sasata (talk) 20:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I checked out all the available online citations, and didn't see any problems with copyvio/close paraphrasing. I've moved my stricken comments to the archive talk page to help keep this page clean. Sasata (talk) 04:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments, Sasata. I have addressed all of them. The ones I have not replied to above I simply changed in the article, but a few I felt I needed to reply to! Dana boomer (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * any chance of getting a picture of the brands? Would be cool & encyclopedic ... Sasata (talk) 04:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I made a few more tweaks, mostly to keep things in line with horse lingo, but a few other little things along the way. If I hurt instead of helped, feel free to change back, no skin off my nose! Montanabw (talk) 02:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support! I think I've addressed your last comments, with the exception of the brand question. So far I have not found a good image of the main registry brand actually on a horse. There are a few line drawings available, but then we run into the image of copyright - who actully owns the brand logo (this is a question per Jappalang, btw, I hadn't actually thought about it!)? There is one image on commons of a German Haflinger brand, but from the research I've done, I think it is a stud-specific brand and therefore is almost definitely copyrighted. Dana boomer (talk) 04:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Funky looking horses, pictures appropriately licensed WP:FA Criteria 3 met Fasach Nua (talk) 21:22, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Fasach Nua! As a note to the closing delegate, Jappalang also reviewed the images (see my nomination statement, I can get you a diff if you need one). More eyes are always better, though :) Dana boomer (talk) 12:15, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments – Just have some quick ones I came up with during a full reading.
 * For Willi of W-line fame, does he have his birth date known? I'm not counting on it since I think it would be in already, but I might as well ask about it while I'm here.
 * Foaled 1921, and I have no idea how I missed that one. Maybe it got accidently deleted along the line somehow... Thanks for pointing it out though, I've added it in.


 * Toward the end of Postwar period, there are a lot of sentences that start along the lines of "In 19xx" bunched together. For example, there are three in a row that begin with "In 1964", "In 1966", and "In 1974", respectively. These aren't easy to reword, but some more variety would be nice if possible. In fact, I think moving the "In 1966" use to a little later in its sentence would actually be an improvement flow-wise.
 * I've moved a few dates around and tried to reword a couple of things. Let me know if it's an improvement :)
 * Yes, it does look better.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 00:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * 21st century: is anything sourcing the part on non-American registries at the very end? It kind of stands out when the rest of the page is filled with cites.
 * You mean the part about clone registration? As far as I can find (and believe me, I have looked!), none of the other breed registries have made any comment on the subject. It's like they're burying their collective head in the sand. The US registry came out with a very fast 'NO on the subject, but no one else will even mention it. This makes it rather hard to prove a negative... I think we should mention this fact, so I don't want to remove it, but if you have a better way to do it (or some sources), please let me know.


 * Registration: I'm pretty sure you could get away with the abbreviated version of the World Haflinger Federation at the end. That's what the initials are for, after all.
 * Done.


 * Reference 40 should have an indication that the link is a PDF file.
 * Done.

Otherwise, it's very nice.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 02:54, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the review. I think I have taken care of everything above - please let me know if you have further comments or I have not completed something to your satisfaction. Dana boomer (talk) 03:32, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Support – Wish there was something more that could be done with the clone registration bit, but if there are no sources there are no sources (I'm not one who would know any different), and the fact seems uncontroversial enough that the lack of a cite isn't the end of the world for me. It's a nice piece of work, and I enjoyed plowing through it.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 00:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Support Prose are well written. Well referenced. Good work--AlastorMoody (talk) 06:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Not quite yet. The Uses section is quite short, and I think there is much more to say. The Austrian army maintains companies using Haflingers for movement and transport in inner Alpine environments. German armies in the South use them likewise. Other armies might as well. Most of the horse milk on the market is from Haflingers. I am not sure all the effort has been put into the article that justifies a featured status. Nageh (talk) 11:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Nageh and thank you for your comments. I'll take your sources in order. The first (doppeladler) appears to be a self-published website run by amateur enthusiasts. Can you give me any hint as to why the curators of this website should be considered reliable experts? The second (bmlv.gv) looks good, as it is a Austrian government website, and so I have added a brief bit into the uses section from this source. It goes into quite a bit of detail about how the horses are trained and cared for, but I think that is more detail than is needed for a general overview article about a breed with many uses and training styles. The third (3sat) looks good, as it is a national news tv service (if I'm correct), and I've added in a bit more on the Austrian usage. The fourth (deutschesheer) looks good, as it's the German army, so I've added a bit from there in. The fifth is the German association of milk producers, so it looks good, and I've added in a bit. I don't speak German (which is probably why I haven't run across these sources before), so if I've messed any of them up with my Google and pocket dictionary translating please let me know. Dana boomer (talk) 14:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Excellent work. You are right in your observation that Doppeladler is a fan-based site, my bad.
 * Regarding the partial practice of cross-breeding, which is currently unsourced, mentioning a popular German cross breed known as Arabo-Haflinger may be worthwhile to include. (pp.211-212)  Nageh (talk) 14:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you say the information is unsourced? The three sentences "Despite the Austrian prohibitions...registry for Haflinger crosses" is all referenced to Ref #48 at the end of the third sentence. Anyway, I've added a sentence on the Arabo-Haflinger. Dana boomer (talk) 15:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It seemed that the source was only pertaining to cross-breading in the UK. Anyway, it's fine now. Nageh (talk) 15:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * One last comment. It is still not quite clear which source provides the statement that Austria prohibits cross-breading. If it is reference [48], I suggest writing this as "Despite the Austrian prohibitions against crossbreeding[48], [...]". If am missing something I apologize for my superficiality. Nageh (talk) 16:08, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I've duplicated the ref. Thank you so much for the comments and for finding the German-language refs for me - I never would have found them on my own! Dana boomer (talk) 17:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! And thanks for yours efforts on the article! Nageh (talk) 17:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Query this article has 5059 hits, but Haflinger only has 2636 hits , why is it not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fasach Nua (talk • contribs)
 * I don't know. I didn't create either of the articles, and have no real opinion on the matter. Does anyone else have any thoughts? Dana boomer (talk) 02:16, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The other people got there first. If someone wants to raise it, I'll support the horse article as primary, but it's also not anything I want to get all up in arms about, either.  If there are three or more uses, I suppose we could do the thing of making a dab be primary and disambiguate everything else.  Not that I care all that much.   Montanabw (talk) 02:58, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Meeting WP:NAME is part of WP:FA Criteria, although I have never seen it come up in an FAC Fasach Nua (talk) 06:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Haflinger (horse) meets the naming criteria and particularly WP:PRECISION just fine, it's proper form, and there is no dispute over the breed name, and so I don't think it is any kind of issue for FAC. The truck article was created in 2002, this one in 2004. That said, the horse breed predates the truck! Nonetheless, I think the primary use question should not be a factor here for FAC, particularly as it would require relinking dozens of articles on both pages. It may be worth discussing later.  Montanabw (talk) 07:22, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I went with WP:BOLD, now Haflinger is disambig, and the Vehicle is at Haflinger (vehicle) Fasach Nua (talk) 09:51, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * From all I know, and I'm pretty sure about that, the vehicle of Austrian production, sold primarily to the military, was named after the horse breed. Whether we want Haflinger to be the horse article or a disamb (as now) is a matter of taste, and I'm fine with either. Nageh (talk) 10:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Works for me. I think that Fasach Nua and myself have managed to fix all of the links to the dab page, so that should be sorted. Dana boomer (talk) 14:13, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm happy. Looks like there wasn't all that many links, after all.  I've been so wounded on dab stuff thanks to a particular editor Dana knows I've tangled with that I just get scared of dealing the whole thing.  Thanks for tackling it!  Good work, folks!  ;-)   Montanabw (talk) 03:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.