Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ho Ho Ho/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:58, 31 December 2017.

Ho Ho Ho

 * Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 01:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello everyone! Since it is almost Christmas (at the time of the nomination), I have decided to put this article on the 1997 Christmas album by American singer and drag queen RuPaul as a way to celebrate the holiday season. Ho Ho Ho consists of thirteen tracks, including ten covers of Christmas standards and carols, and three original songs written by Joe Carrano and RuPaul The album was frequently referenced as an example of camp though RuPaul did specify that he recorded several more serious covers, specifically "All Alone on Christmas" and "Hard Candy Christmas”.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback for this nomination. Surprisingly enough, this would be the first Christmas album article to reach the FA level if this is successful. I hope that everyone has a wonderful rest of your day or night! Aoba47 (talk) 01:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments from Ceranthor

 * "is a 1997 Christmas album and the third overall studio album" - overall is redundant
 * Removed. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "Released on October 28, 1997 by Rhino" - I'd clarify that Rhino is a record label
 * Clarified. Aoba47 (talk) 18:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "and serves as a follow-up to Foxy Lady (1996)" - I'd give a very brief description of the genre for Foxy Lady here
 * I do not see how the genre would be relevant here. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "Ho Ho Ho consists of thirteen tracks, including ten covers of Christmas standards and carols, and three original songs written by Joe Carrano and RuPaul " - missing a period, I think
 * Added a period. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "The album was frequently referenced as an example of camp though RuPaul did specify that he recorded several more serious covers, specifically "All Alone on Christmas" and "Hard Candy Christmas"." - Referenced by whom? Also, the second half of this sentence is a mess; what do you mean he specified that he recorded moe serious covers? Super vague language
 * Added that critics were the ones referencing the album as an example of camp. I am not sure what you mean by the "super vague language" comment on the last part though as i feel that it is pretty clear that it is conveying that RuPaul stated that he did more serious interpretations of the songs as opposed to this camp classification. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "However, some commentators responded negatively to the record's use of humor and the clarity of its overall message." - did they respond negatively to its clarity, or to its lack of clarity?
 * Added. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "It was also included in a parody list discussing the alt-right, the "War on Christmas", and the bathroom bill. " - punctuation needs focusing here; the way it's used this reads as a parody list, the "war on christmas"...
 * I respectfully disagree with you on this matter as I think it is quite clear that the sentence is conveying that the list is on the following things (the alt-right, the "War on Christmas", and the bathroom bill) and the commas separate the different parts that are included in the list. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * " In support of the record, RuPaul filmed a television special as a part of his VH1 talk show The RuPaul Show (1996)." - I'd remove the "a" before part.
 * Removed. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

How exciting to see one of Ru's albums at FAC! Since it's so short, I'm using an especially fine comb. More comments after these are resolved.  ceran  thor 03:24, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I greatly appreciate your comments so far, and I am looking forward to the rest of your review. Hopefully, this nomination will inspire others to work on other articles on RuPaul's music and career. Aoba47 (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * In the lead, I meant to clarify that Foxy Lady was Rupaul's previous album.  ceran  thor 15:13, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That is pretty clear through the phrase (serves as a follow-up to Foxy Lady) and the year also makes it clear that Foxy Lady was released prior to this one. Aoba47 (talk) 18:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I disagree. I've changed it to "follow-up to his 1996 album Foxy Lady."
 * Thank you for the response; I am still not certain how your editing is that different as all you did was move the date from parenthesis to a short descriptive phrase, but I am fine with your edits. Aoba47 (talk) 20:07, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * ""You can hear us having a good time. So whether it was a Hanukkah album or a Kwanzaa album, it didn't make a difference, because the chemistry is there."" - citation for direct quote?
 * It is all cited by Reference 3; a majority of the first paragraph is cited by the reference and I do not see any need to repeat the citation multiple times throughout the paragraph. Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "after years of attempting to record one with producer Lucian Piane.[3][6]" - clunky
 * How would you record revising this part? I cannot find another way to phrase this? Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Copyedited to "after he spent years hoping to record one with producer Lucian Piane.[3][9]". I've also moved it around; feel free to tweak the location.  ceran  thor 19:40, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 20:07, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * However, RuPaul identified "Hard Candy Christmas" as one of the "serious ones" on the album, and said it was only referenced as camp due to "the fact that [he is] doing it". - citation for direct quote?
 * See above. The citation is later down in the same paragraph as all of the information in that paragraph is sourced from that reference (i.e. in this case, it is Reference 2). Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "While highlighting the changes made to the songs' titles, Ken Veeder of The Advocate positively responded to RuPaul's interpretations of the Christmas classic in "the gay way"." - citation for a direct quote?
 * See above; same reasoning for last comments of the same type. Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "During an interview with the publication," - which publication?
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Newman questioned the effectiveness of the record's overall message, noting that RuPaul's message in the liner notes about "creating one's own family for the holidays" did not fit with the image of "Ru's Christmas panties around his ankles". - citation for direct quote?
 * See above for my responses to similar comments. Aoba47 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

More comments coming.  ceran  thor 15:13, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review so far! Aoba47 (talk) 05:49, 27 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "RuPaul co-produced the album with American music producers Fenton Bailey and Randy Barbato, who both work for the production company World of Wonder." - could we cut the "who both work..." bit to just "with American musics producers... names... from the production company World of Wonder"?
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "The album's record label Rhino executive promoted the album through the tagline: "Celebrate Christmas with classic holiday songs and camp, RuPaul style!"[4]" - any idea where they promoted it?
 * I am assuming that it is just in random promotional materials, such as print publications. Here is the quote in full from the source: ("Celebrate Christmas with classic holiday songs and camp, RuPaul style!" trumpet the good folks at Rhino Records who have unleashed this 13-track collection in stores.). Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * On the fourth track, RuPaul provides a "naughty" interpretation of the single "Santa Baby". - I find this sentence confusing, since the original definitely isn't innocent...
 * Removed as it is rather silly. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Alternatively, his covers of "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" and "Hard Candy Christmas" were noted for their use of camp - could you mention here that the cover is titled "I Saw Daddy Kissing Santa Claus"?
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 *  "Christmas Train (Medley)", serving as "a sassy summary of the season’s favorites atop a white-hot club mix".[1] - why the quote? It doesn't feel appropriate here; could you describe the song in your own words?
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The final track is a remix of the "Celebrate"; - Is there a word missing here? It seems like it
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * " and writer from OutTV referred to it as a "collection of cheeky and cheerful tunes"." - missing an "a", I think
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "In a 2016 retrospective review, Serene Dominic of Tucson Weekly included RuPaul as part of its list of artists who should not have released a Christmas album for Ho Ho Ho." - The way this sentence is written makes it sound like Dominic actually dislikes the album; anyway you could rewrite it to change that would be great.
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Any idea how many total copies the album sold? Is that available anywhere?
 * Unfortunately, I could not track down this information. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with this. Once these are fixed, I hope to support.  ceran  thor 02:25, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your review! I greatly appreciate your help with this. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem.  ceran  thor 15:19, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Support  ceran  thor 15:19, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 17:50, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments from Freikorp

 * "made available on October 28, 1997 by Rhino on cassette, CD, and digital download" - It was made available on digital download in 1997? Are you sure? That seems a bIt anachronistic.
 * Thank you for catching that! I am not sure how I missed that one. I have corrected it. I have changed this in the "Recording and release" section and the "Release history" chart. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 27 December 2017 (UTC)


 * "During an interview with the Gay Times" - I'd specify what year the interview was in.
 * Added the year. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 27 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I'd add the year the parody list was written to the body, and probably to the lead as well.
 * Added the year. Aoba47 (talk) 17:10, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

That's all I found. Looks really good. Freikorp (talk) 13:01, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review! I believe that I have addressed everything. Aoba47 (talk) 17:19, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. :) Freikorp (talk) 22:36, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 23:11, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Sources review
Not much to quibble over here. I noticed ref 18: "Queerty" – what's the background here? Why is this a high quality reliable source? Otherwise, sources look appropriate and in good order. Brianboulton (talk) 14:51, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the review. Newsweek referenced it as "a leading site for gay issues", so it seems to have gotten some credibility through that. I could not find a list of editors or an about page on the site. Just for clarity's sake, the source is an interview with someone if that makes a difference. I could easily remove it from the article if necessary though as it is not extensively used. Thank you again! Aoba47 (talk) 17:17, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll leave it you, though you might wish to consult other (knowledgeable) editors about whether to keep it. Brianboulton (talk) 17:23, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply. I am trying to be better at learning about source reliability and appropriateness so I greatly appreciate the feedback. Would it be okay if I make a post on the Reliable sources/Noticeboard to ask about this? I am not tied down to the source either way, and would not mind if it needs to be removed as it is not used as an integral part of the article. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day or night! If I hear anything back from the RSN, then I will post a link and/or quote from the discussion on here to clarify which way the decision goes in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 17:28, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments from TheJoebro64
I'll be posting some comments within the next day. JOE BRO  64  23:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 23:56, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Ho Ho Ho, also known as VH-1 Presents RuPaul: Ho Ho Ho,[1] Is it possible to move this citation out of the lead?
 * I moved the information to the body of the article so it could be cited there. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Per Manual of Style/Titles, AllMusic should be italicized.
 * Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Since I could not find any major issues, I'm happy to support this now! I found this a comprehensive and well-written article. Well done. JOE BRO  64  19:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments from Tintor2

 * I found no major issues with this article other than the fact that Release history simply says 2009. Could it be a bit more specific?
 * That is a good point, but unfortunately, I could not find a more exact date as digital platforms list the album's original release date as opposed to the date in which it was released as a digital download. Aoba47 (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Also "In a 2016 retrospective review, Serene Dominic of Tucson Weekly jokingly included RuPaul as part of its list of artists who should not have released a Christmas album for Ho Ho Ho. The article was written as a parody of the alt-right and the "War on Christmas", with Dominic joking that the album led to the creation of the bathroom bills." feels too small for a paragraph considering it only has two sentences. Maybe it could be merged into another paragraph or simply be expanded.Tintor2 (talk) 17:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I am hesitant to combine the paragraph with another one as it represents a different topic/idea than any of the other paragraphs in the same section. The closest one would be the paragraph on the retrospective praise, but I think the Tuscon Weekly source uses the album more as a humorous moment as opposed to a real review. I would also not want to expand it as I do not want to give undue weight to one source but having more than two sentences devoted to it if that makes any sense. Aoba47 (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Leaving my support then.Tintor2 (talk) 18:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 18:43, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Image review

 * File:RuPaulHoHoHo.jpg: License and use seem fine for me.
 * File:MichelleVisageimage.png: Use seems fine, license as well although the lack of EXIF is odd. AGF on second source, first source for the caption checks out.
 * Good ALT text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:34, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you as always! Aoba47 (talk) 20:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Request for Status Update

 * I would greatly appreciate it if either one of you could provide an update on this nomination. It has received several reviews, as well as a source check and an image check. I hope you both are having a wonderful end of the year. Have a great rest of your day or night! Aoba47 (talk) 20:38, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 23:58, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.