Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Horse-fly/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Graham Beards via FACBot (talk) 16:01, 22 October 2015.

Horse-fly

 * Nominator(s): Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:32, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

This article is about horse-flies, biting and blood-sucking insects that bother both people and animals. The article achieved good article status in August after a thorough review by Shyamal during which it was improved considerably. The review mainly concentrated on content rather than layout, so I have done some further polishing. I look forward to your comments. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:32, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * NB: This is a wikicup nomination. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:49, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Support Comments from Burklemore1
Another insect article I cannot resist commenting on. My points are very minor, just suggestions really that is involved with the references. I may post more comments in the future though, depending if I am busy or not.


 * Page numbers for references 2 and 3? I know the statement is very obvious, but it would help if page numbers are included.
 * The title of the books both include (Diptera: Tabanidae) so I could cite the cover! I could instead cite ITIS if you prefer. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That works, the cover should be fine. If you want to include ITIS, feel free to.


 * Add for ref no. 20
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Add doi:10.1071/ZO9550583 for ref no. 2
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Add doi:10.1071/IS07005 for ref no. 27
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Add and issue no. 3-6 for ref no. 32
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Add and Bibcode 2008NW.....95.1093H for ref no. 35
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Add for ref no. 45
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I think it should be noted that only females bite.
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * This page says that fungi other things attack the larvae, though most listed organisms are already mentioned. See here, page 12.
 * Added to article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I find it odd that there is no external links section for the wikispecies link and dictionary link. It's just within the reference section, and it looks visually strange in my opinion.
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Any reason why the common names in the body of the article are bolded? While they are common names for these flies, I thought it was only necessary to bold the names in the lead. I may be in the wrong, but I have never seen this occur in FA articles related to animals. Burklemore1 (talk) 17:53, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Removed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments. I think I have dealt with all the issues you raise. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * All issues have been addressed, I've made two minor edits to the article. I cannot see anything that appears to be problematic, so I am now supporting this article. Well done on another excellent insect article. Burklemore1 (talk) 04:50, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Theater_of_Insects.jpg needs a US PD tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:50, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. Thank you Nikkimaria. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:50, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments from FunkMonk

 * Hi, I'll give this a review soon, a few points for now. FunkMonk (talk) 08:47, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Are there no photos of the eggs and larvae? If not on Commons, perhaps on Flickr or in old books.
 * I did a photo search on this matter and I had no luck. However, I did find this one of a female laying eggs. See here. It could be useful for the article. Burklemore1 (talk) 13:34, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, it is also on Commons: If pressed for room, I certainly think such an image is more relevant than for example the one of the wasp. FunkMonk (talk) 13:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I decided to add it in due to its relevance, though it may make the article look a little bit crammed. Burklemore1 (talk) 17:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Burklemore1. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries! Burklemore1 (talk) 16:58, 21 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The images under In literature are on the same level, which is discouraged (due to "sandwiching" of text). If no other arrangement can be found, I think the book cover is almost irrelevant to the subject, it doesn't even seem to depict the fly.
 * Sorted. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why an "overview" section title is needed to encompass both description, evolution and taxonomy. Isn't consistent with other articles about similar subjects. Also, it doesn't really mean anything; an overview of some issues to the arbitrary exclusion of others? FunkMonk (talk) 12:48, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Removed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "The Tabanidae are true flies and members of the insect order Diptera." Why is this under description?
 * Moved. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Most unfamiliar terms are explained, but some are not, for example setae, flagellum, and ocelli, and others as well.
 * Done the ones I found. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * You mention sizes two different places under description, might be good to have them in succession.
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The last paragraph under Description seems to overlap with the diet section.
 * Moved. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "These early bloodsuckers existed before warm-blooded mammals had evolved and likely fed on reptiles." Does the source really say this? I'm pretty sure warm blooded mammals are thought to have evolved before the Jurassic, and before the first dinosaurs.
 * Rewritten to better reflect the source. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems a bit unclear from the article, but does the term "horsefly" refer to Tabanidae overall or just Tabaninae?
 * Both really. The article should be called "Tabanidae" but Wikipedia policy seems to give articles common rather than scientific names. Tabaninae could be called "true horseflies" I suppose. I have bolded Tabanidae in the lead. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "Johann Wilhelm Meigen was a pioneering naturalist and author of Die Fliegen (Flies); he gave the name Haematopota, blood-drinker,[29] to another genus of horse-flies in 1803.[30]" Seems a bit random to single this one out with so much information, from thousands of species?
 * Rewritten to emphasize his importance. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * "while Chrysops larvae have been reported to feed on organic matter, their mouth parts indicate a predatory habit." I'm not sure what is meant by this sentence, as it has already been stated they are carnivorous?
 * Removed sentence. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:33, 22 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Support - That's all I had to say, nice work! FunkMonk (talk) 07:56, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your review and support. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:06, 22 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment (having stumbled here from my FAC). There's a bit about prevention but I was expecting to see a tad bit more on symptoms impacting humans from the bites and just a teeny bit about how to treat Horse-fly bites or at least attempt to ameliorate them. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 01:15, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have added a short section on the symptoms and treatment. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:32, 30 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Support. Looks quite good, thank you. &mdash; Cirt (talk) 17:56, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments from TAP

 * "In some areas of Canada, biting tabanids are known as bull dog flies" – the source or its link to the etymology of "bulldog" do not mention the suggestion of "some areas of Canada" or specify "biting tabanids", only referring to the family
 * Corrected. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Source 9 – perhaps change the link to this fact page instead of the background page?
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Oxford commas – I would advise being consistent throughout. For example, "antennae, frons and maxillae", "Greenland, Iceland and Hawaii", and "Tabanus, Chrysops and Haematopota" are without commas
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "specimens from the Cretaceous have been found in England and South Africa" – source mentions specimens from the Cretaceous in England, Spain, and a single possible South African specimen
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "morphological" – link?
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "tibiae" – link?
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "genus Tabanus Linnaeus, 1758 and the deer flies, genus Chrysops Meigen, 1802" – the details of the genera describers make this appear slightly messy. Otherwise, I would advise delinking genus and instead linking it in its first usage ("genus Chrysops")
 * Rephrased. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "exudates" – possibly link?
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "its movement, its warmth, its surface texture" – "its" seems repetitive
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * "Blue tail fly" – capitalise song title
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

That's all from me. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 17:28, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments. I think I have dealt with all the points you raise. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Support. Excellent work. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 07:14, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:59, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Comments and source review from Cas Liber

 * Any reason why you're using cm unabbreviated after using mm abbreviated in description section? All should align one way or t'other....
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 *  Some treatments include the subfamily Adersiinae, with the single genus Adersia, and the subfamily Scepcidinae, with the two genera Braunsiomyia and Scepsis - it isn't explained what the alternative is...are they considered by others in separate families or in one of the other subfamilies?
 * Explained further. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Err, (just using this version for ref numbering, FN 3 just says that species is called the Notch-horned Cleg-fly. It doesn't say that other species are called cleg-flies (or clags/klegs).
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

*Similarly FN 4 links Tabanus nigrovittatus but not genus to greenhead. So not sure how generalised term is.


 * FN 8 is ok (i.e. sentence faithful to source).


 * FN 9 needs publisher.
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * FN 10...not a great source...would prefer secondary source but not dealbreaker...


 * In fact, FN 11 looks a much better source, list some more names and has some more details about some names...which is a good way to make the common names section less listy.
 * I have rearranged the paragraph on common names, eliminated FN3 and FN4, and used FN11 as you suggested. That means some of the other FN numbers have changed, so I won't do anything more till you have finished. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:37, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * They are the same. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:41, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * FN 13 used 5 times - all ok apart from I can't find where in source it says that the female needs to have blood before laying eggs....
 * Added a reference. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * FN 14 and 16 (used twice), and FN 42 all check out ok


 * I initially paused on the use of FN21 but am satisfied it is a RS when I see who wrote it...speaking of which, that ref needs an author and publisher. (look at this page maybe)
 * Done, I think. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Seems to have vanished..? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I removed it because the source had changed since it was first cited and it no longer provided any useful information. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * FN 28 needs publisher.
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Other refs formatted ok.

Otherwise article looks in ok shape. Will look later Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:47, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I think I have dealt with all these issues. The alteration of the the FN numbers made things difficult, and they will be different again because I am removing the source that you mention above under FN21, because the source has changed since it was first cited and it no longer provides any useful information. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:55, 18 October 2015 (UTC)


 * This one needs a publisher.
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * this book provides some good material on origin and use of common names and would do really well to flesh out and delistify common names section.
 * This section completely rewritten. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * this book needs publisher etc. added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The taxonomy has been updated in a 2015 paper by Morita - its findings really need to be incorporated into this article, plus it has some good background stuff (i.e. >3000 spp of Tabaninae etc.).
 * I have added this taxonomic information and will look for other useful titbits. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:15, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Great! I would have left in breeze-fly (cool name!) and added in alternate spellings of clegs....
 * I have given the alternate spellings, and added breeze-fly, which I find is used in North America. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:51, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

FN 43 and 44 (based on this revision) are faithful to source, don't copyvio and hence ok.

FN 32 - (based on same revision) used twice - faithful to source, don't copyvio and hence ok.Only iss was info started on 310 not 311 but I tweaked that.

Overall sources checked check out ok. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:23, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you Cas Liber. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:26, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Graham Beards (talk) 16:01, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.