Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Howie Morenz/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 19:38, 27 October 2009.

Howie Morenz

 * Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Third time nominating this article. Just finished a Peer Review, and copyedited. Like always, all concerns will be addressed as soon as possible. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

RB88 (T) 17:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Source comments Dabs and links fine.
 * Current ref 1 needs italics on Montreal Gazette
 * Current refs 4, 49 have exactly the same author and publisher. In this case, author is a bit redundant so needs removal.
 * The Jenish book in the bibliography needs a publishing location like the other books for uniformity.
 * The Weir et al book in the bibliography is not used so needs removal.
 * With much thanks to Alaney2k for taking care of this before I even had a chance to address the comments, they are all taken care of. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There were still some outstanding. Fixed them myself. RB88 (T) 19:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Image review: The following images need explanation of how they are PD in the USA:
 * File:Morenz19361937a.jpg
 * File:HowieMorenz19291930.jpg
 * File:Morenzhospital1937.jpg
 * File:Morenz1934ASGa.jpg
 * Oppose pending resolution of this. Stifle (talk) 11:49, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, they were published in Canada, and was in the Canadian public domain as of 1996, so therefore in the public domain in the US. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; they should be tagged PD-US-1996 in that case. Stifle (talk) 08:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * All taken care of. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Stifle (talk) 13:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments – Looks much better than the first time, when I opposed. Didn't actively review at the second FAC, though I did make a few copy-edits back then.
 * Early life: "and he helped the Mitchell ice hockey team reach the Western Ontario junior championship." Did they reach the finals or actually win the championship? The article isn't entirely clear, and after a look at the source, I think "win the Western Ontario junior championship" would be an improvement.
 * Done


 * "In April he met with William Morenz, Howie's father". The first sentence of the section states that he is Morenz's father, so it's not really necessary to repeat that fact.
 * Fixed


 * Montreal Canadiens: Comma after date in first sentence?
 * Done


 * Awkward bit here: "In the first of the two game, total goals series". I understand the desire to avoid repetition, but it doesn't work grammatically this way. Needs to be rephrased slightly.
 * Went back to the way it used to be.

I've read through more than half of the Canadiens section and will read the rest of the article later.  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 22:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Addressed comments. Looking forward to the rest of your review. Kaiser matias (talk) 20:42, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "Minor injuries led to his point totals going down for the following season, finishing second...". Try moving the subject (Morenz) closer to the comma, because the bit after it is unclear and problematic grammatically.
 * Changed that sentence a bit to make it sound better.
 * Legacy: There's already a New York Americans link in the prior section, so I don't think this needs to be linked again here.
 * Got rid of that one, and another link.
 * Personal life: Consider merging the two paragraphs into one. The section has a rather stubby look as it is now.
 * Moved back to the way it was

 Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 01:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * All comments addressed. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Leaning support – Quite a good piece of work, but I'd like to see Fowler's talk page comments responded to before fully supporting, as they seem like solid tightening measures. Once that happens, consider the first word struck.  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 00:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Support – Declaration updated per my previous statement.  Giants2008  ( 17–14 ) 22:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment I disagree about merging the personal stuff into early life. I created the personal life section so that sentences like the one about the ukelele would be in an appropriate section. I think the intent of whomever wrote that was that he played it throughout his life, and it doesn't fit well in the early life section. So I don't think that was an improvement. I would not look for marriage details in the Early Life section. There is a duplicate sentence there too. Alaney2k (talk) 19:04, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I moved stuff around at the start of the article. Basically, I lumped the personal stuff into the "early life" part, and moved all the junior ice hockey-related stuff to a new subsection, "early career." That should take care of all concerns about it. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:09, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good, thanks. Alaney2k (talk) 23:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Provisional support: Support (Updated) Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  22:20, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Nice article, but the prose needs to be reworked a little. On the article's talk page, I've left some detailed comments on the prose in the lead and the personal life sections. Someone should go through the other sections as well. Some things don't seem to add up. We are told that the died of complications from the broken leg; however, it is never made clear what these complications were. One typically doesn't get a heart attack from a compound leg fracture, especially not a 34-year-old. Also, what does the sentence, "Though there were many visitors, Morenz often found himself alone in the hospital room, unable to move off his bed," mean? Was his perception of being alone and his bed-ridden state a result of depression? Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  20:27, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Everything has been addressed. I look forward to hearing what eveyone says. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Status? This has been up almost three weeks; have provisional and leaning supporters been pinged?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 17:04, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * (Reply to SandyGeorgia) I have changed mine to support.  Giants2008 says above that as soon as my (F&f's) talk page comments have been addressed his leaning support should be considered a full support.  My talk page concerns have been addressed.  Stifle has scratched his oppose and his last comment is "Excellent."  So, that makes three supports and no oppose (by my reckoning!)    Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  12:09, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Tentative support. It's a good one, but a little spoilt by prose things that could easily be fixed. And the writer would then be flying to prepare more FACs without those infelicities. No need to ping me, but an audit of a few niggles outlined below would be good. Not a big job (2 hours). When done, consider this a support. Infobox: do we need black blue black blue black blue black blue for the values and units? Looks like party balloons. I'm sure we've determined that common units should not be linked, even on first appearance, haven't we? And why stones and pounds conversion as well? Aren't Canada-related articles meant to have metric units as primary? En dash for year ranges shouldn't be spaced. Please see User:Tony1/Beginners'_guide_to_the_Manual_of_Style.
 * In regards to the infobox, I have no idea why it was designed that way, and I'm not familiar enough with code to change it.


 * In "Personal life", after after after after. Keep a watch out for close repetitions. "forward when" is one sol'n, but perhaps another can be changed too?
 * I removed some uses of "after," so should be fine now.


 * It's on the dense side of acceptable for comma usage (I've tried to move my own writing towards slightly fewer commas, actually). For example, one could be cut from this: "A friend of Léo Dandurand, the owner of the Montreal Canadiens of the National Hockey League, refereed the game, and told Dandurand how good Morenz was." And "years with a salary". At random, I see "The rumours ended on October 3, 1934, when Morenz was traded, along with goaltender Lorne Chabot and defenceman Marty Burke, to the Chicago Black Hawks for forwards Leroy Goldsworthy and Lionel Conacher, and defenceman Roger Jenkins." Consider removing the comma after "traded"?
 * I'm terrible with over-using commas; got rid of the ones mentioned.


 * Upon is a little old-fashioned, nowadays.
 * Removed both uses.


 * No contractions (MoS).
 * Removed all but the one from the quotation.


 * Chain link unnecessary: "in Ottawa against the Ottawa Senators"—the city is linked to from the top of the team article, surely.
 * Done


 * "Often" here is a bit stilted: "While recovering in the hospital, Morenz received many get-well cards, and his teammates as well as players from other NHL teams visited often." Perhaps: "While recovering in the hospital, Morenz received many get-well cards and visits from his teammates and players from other NHL teams."? Then startitis, a WPian disease: three instances, perhaps one unnecessary: "To pass the time, he began reading the newspapers in an effort to stay up to date with the Canadiens as they finished the season. After his injury, the team dropped in the standings, causing Morenz to worry. He began to think that he would never play hockey again and became depressed." There are redundancies, too. "To pass the time, he read newspapers to stay up to date with the Canadiens as they finished the season. Since his injury, the team had dropped in the standings[, causing Morenz to worry]. He began to think he would never play hockey again and became depressed." I fixed the tense and got rid of another "after". Do audit throughout for the handling of onset and finish as grammatical elements.
 * Done


 * Do Canadians still dot "Dr"? No big deal, but three dots within a cm.
 * As far as I'm aware, we still do.


 * travelled from Stratford.
 * Done


 * and not "came" again: "They called Mary Morenz and Cecil Hart, asking them to come to the hospital." erky. "Mary Morenz and Cecil Hart were called to the hospital; around."
 * Done

Tony  (talk)  11:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking over the article. I've addressed all the listed concerns. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.