Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ian O'Brien


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 00:31, 27 September 2008.

Ian O&

 * Nominator(s):  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket )

Article is copmrehensive and should meet FA criteria...  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 09:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Wrong date formats for an Australian topic. Way overlinked, including repeat links and commonly known names. Tony   (talk)  11:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Source check - Sources look good. Links check out with the link-checker tool.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 23:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Nice work overall. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  02:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * O'Brien grew up in the rural town of Wellington, 360 kilometres (225 miles) from Sydney.[1] with neither of his parents having a sporting background. That supposed to be a comma? If so, "with" should be avoided as a connecting word per MoS.
 * O'Brien's sister Anne was a talented swimmer in her childhood years, but she preferred horseriding. I don't believe "horseriding" is a word, should be "horseback riding".
 * There were not many non-sporting activities for children in Wellington, and O'Brien played basketball and rugby league, did athletics and rode horses as well as swimming. Awkwardly worded. Makes it sound like O'Brien rode swimming.
 * I'd like to see some more information about his actual early life.
 * Is it possible to cut down on the use of "O'Brien", and use "he" or something like that?
 * O'Brien retired after the 1968 Olympics aged 21, so that he could concentrate solely on making a living. The word "that" is redundant.


 * I've done these tweaks, except I couldn't get more info on his family life because the only source available is a 2-page profile in a book of Australian gold medalists- no book was written about him. I've maxed out what's available.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket '') 07:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Looks good. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  12:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Prose generally needs polishing, although it's not bad. Please find someone new to do it, since you're probably too close to it. Tony  (talk)  04:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why bother to abbreviate "yard"? The "m" for "minute" clashes with "m" for "metre" (already used). I wonder why not "2 minutes 41.8 seconds (2'48")" the first time.
 * invaluable and productive?
 * "Before" is so much nicer than "prior to".
 * "1 s 7.8 s"—another reason to change the symbol system.
 * "got his first swimming instruction"—eeeuuw.
 * I've done these specific tweaks.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket '') 07:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed the minute symbol from the awful "m" to the standard "min" throughout the article. I wouldn't oppose 2'48" either, though, if that's commonly used in swimming. -- Jao (talk) 12:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Support Comments  from I'll finish up the comments later. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "before retiring at the young age of 21 due to financial pressure." "young" is subjective, remove it.
 * Spell out all units on their first appearance.
 * Wikilink crash diet in the lead.
 * "O'Brien grew up in the rural town of Wellington, 360 kilometres (225 miles) from Sydney.[1] with neither of his parents having a sporting background. His father Roy knew only one swimming stroke, which was breaststroke, while his mother Thelma did not take her first swimming lesson until she was 55." Needs rewrite, try: "O'Brien grew up in the rural town of Wellington, 360 kilometres (225 miles) from Sydney. Neither of his parents were skilled swimmers. His father Roy knew only one swimming stroke—the breaststroke—and his mother Thelma did not take her first swimming lesson until she was 55."
 * "The local pool was an old-style facility that had no pump system and was only manually drained once a week; it was not the most hygienic system possible." That last phrase seems trivial.
 * "After dominating the breaststroke events at the country championships" "Dominating" is POV.
 * "world record breaking breaststroker Terry Gathercole." Hyphens needed.
 * "Aged 13" no, "At age 13".
 * "In 1962, O'Brien gained selection for Australia" Australia's what?
 * "He competed in both the 110 yd (100 m) and 220 yd (200 m) breaststroke, defeating fellow Australian William Burton in both events in times of 1 min 11.4s and 2 min 38.1 s, respectively." Repetition of "both". "in times"-->with times.
 * Done all of this.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket '') 07:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "He then completed his campaign with victory"—With a victory.
 * "In the space of a one year, he had reduced his times in the two events by more than 3%."
 * "O'Brien was known for the strength that his torso generated, and was also known for his powerful kicks"—A bit repetitive.
 * "O'Brien did a 2 min 33 s"—Specify.
 * "He was aware of not chasing Jastremski, who was known for an aggressive opening style, which resulted in a faster first half." Aware is not the right word here.
 * "O'Brien was rested for the heats of the 4 × 100 m medley relay, with Peter Tonkin swimming the breaststroke leg." Rewrite: "O'Brien rested during the heats of the 4 × 100 m medley relay; Peter Tonkin swam the breaststroke leg instead."
 * I detect POV language ("he returned to his peak form", "O'Brien narrowly missed", etc.).
 * "O'Brien went on to finish sixth in a time of 1 min 8.6 s." "in"-->with.
 * "O'Brien retired after the 1968 Olympics aged 21"-->"At age 21, O'Brien..."
 * "which became one of the largest privately owned television documentary companies in Australia, with its sound stages being used by public and private television companies."—awkward. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I did all of these except your queries about POV. At the time 1968, the clocks only measured to 0.1s, and O'Brien lost by 0.1s, in a race that takes four minutes. That's close by any measure. As for the comment about peak, his times were comparable to his personal best.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket '') 02:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, just watch out for those types of phrases. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

 Comments Support -
 * International debut: "He added a second gold as part of the New South Wales team that won the 4 x 100 m medley relay in a time 4 min 18.3 s." Should probably be "in a time of".
 * Olympic gold: Delink Toyko here. And Soviet Union as well.
 * However, O'Brien's acceleration in the third meant that he tired at the end and he managed to fend off Prokopenko..." I'd like to see "but managed to fend off..." to establish contrast, and change however to avoid having that and but in the same sentence.  Giants2008  ( 17-14 ) 03:53, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * done these.  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket '') 07:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.