Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Iloilo International Airport/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia on 02:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC).

Iloilo International Airport
Self-nomination. After over a year of work on this article (and the peer review), I believe it has been expanded well enough to merit FA status in time for the airport's first anniversary on June 14, 2008. Any comments, of course, are greatly appreciated. Thanks! -- Sky Harbor 01:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Oppose Comments

Several major issues exist in this article, including but not limited to:


 * Improperly formatted references. Use cite web and include title, url, publisher, and accessdate at the very minimum.
 * Structure-wise, the beginning is pretty good, then later on it starts to fall apart and there are many stubby paragraphs.
 * Two dead links
 * "($148 million)" needs to specify US$ because US dollars is not the 'default' currency of Wikipedia.
 * Stuff like "in March of 2007" can just do "March 2007"
 * "nine billion pesos" — I think when talking about money, it's best to stick with numbers even if it's less than 10
 * "the New Iloilo Airport Development Project, or NIADP." — No need to italicize.
 * "The final opening date was finally set for June 13, 2007,[25] with commercial services commencing on June 14, 2007." — "The final opening date was set for June 13, 2007, with commercial services commencing the next day." might be better?
 * There are more prose issues, too, so please do a thorough copyedit of the article.

Gary King ( talk ) 01:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Points 4-8 have been fixed. The reference format that I used is the same on the other two FAs which I have initiated (the Manila LRT and the Manila MRT), and the vast majority of them are newspaper articles, but I suppose I can fix them as well.  I would also need the dead links so I can fix them.  -- Sky Harbor  02:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you have a URL, then at the very least you need an accessdate. Dead links are found by clicking 'External links' in the toolbox in the top-right corner of this FAC. Periodicals need their publishers italicized. A lot of references are using blogspot, and that is a huge no-no; I don't think they are considered reliable. Gary King ( talk ) 02:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The Blogspot references in question are actual newspaper articles. Articles leading to the Panay News can only use their respective Blogspot entries because the Panay News website was taken down.  One which leads to The Daily Guardian, a major newspaper in the area, does not have a direct link to the article (I will look for it).  Yahoo! News articles are never saved for some reason, so I will replace them with their respective archived versions from the Internet Archive, if available, or I will replace them with other articles.  References are likewise being fixed.  -- Sky Harbor  02:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Points 1 and 3 have been fixed. Save for the Explore Iloilo/SSC refs, all other refs have been fixed.  I will fix those remaining refs soon. -- Sky Harbor  05:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Update: All refs have (finally) been fixed. -- Sky Harbor  13:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Some more:


 * "via a three-kilometer long, thirty-meter wide access road linking" — provide conversion to feet
 * "See also" section goes before References


 * Gary King ( talk ) 15:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Both done. -- Sky Harbor  00:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

--Efe (talk) 02:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment
 * There are stubby sentences and sections and paragraphs.
 * The references are not well formatted. For instance, the date the source was retrieved are not specified.
 * Oops! The same concetn by Gary. Anyway, these stuffs will be the concerns of the reviewers, at most. --Efe (talk) 02:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I am fixing the refs. Once I finish those, I will move to the paragraphs.  Which paragraphs are stubby?  -- Sky Harbor  02:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * In the terminal subsection. There's a one line para there as well as the following section. ACtually, the first half is balanced in terms of paragraph size. The next half breaks the prose. --Efe (talk) 03:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll merge the info about the amenities of the terminal. The last sentence stays because it's about the cargo terminal, not the passenger terminal.  -- Sky Harbor  03:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Cargo terminal information has been expanded and the terminals subsection has been divided. -- Sky Harbor  05:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * I can't tell if the dates wikilinked in the references are the access dates or the publication dates?
 * Please give authors when available, and any other bibliographic data.
 * What makes http://www.exploreiloilo.com/about-us a reliable source?
 * Likewise http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=12143674&postcount=283? Ealdgyth - Talk 02:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Per previous comments, I am fixing ALL refs as these comments come in. To prove that I am fixing them, I will save the intial work that I have done.  Per the last two points, here's something that I can vouch for:


 * Explore Iloilo is widely regarded among Ilonggos, both resident in Iloilo, Negros Occidental and outside the Philippines even, as one of the most comprehensive websites about the province of Iloilo. Authors from Explore Iloilo, like the one who wrote the article on Iloilo International Airport, have even had their work published in Philippine publications.
 * Some information on IIA was taken from SkyscraperCity. Not everything about the airport is indeed written, so pictures are used to describe that.  In fact, once I find suitable sources for that, I intend to remove that source.


 * Hope that answers your query. -- Sky Harbor  03:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Update: SSC ref removed, Explore Iloilo refs retained. -- Sky Harbor 13:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm leaving the bit about Explore Iloilo out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If there is consensus that the references are objectionable, then I can replace them. However, it will be hard to search for new references.   -- Sky Harbor  02:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Oppose, too many prose issues in the lead alone. Nousernamesleft copper, not wood 01:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're going to abbreviate miles as mi, kilometres should be abbreviated as km. Consistency! Also, hectare -> ha. I'm not sure if there's an abbreviation for acre. All measurements now use Convert. Since I presume this template is based on the MoS, there's nothing I can do about it.
 * There should be a non-breaking space between measurement and unit, not a normal one nor a hyphen. Same as the first bullet
 * Short paragraphs should probably be merged. Some sentences have been merged.
 * "Iloilo International Airport (Filipino: Paliparang Pandaigdig ng Iloilo, Hiligaynon: Internasyonal nga Hulugpaan sang Iloilo) (IATA: ILO, ICAO: RPVI) is an international airport in the Philippines designed to serve the general area of Iloilo City, which is the capital city of the province of Iloilo and the regional center of the Western Visayas region as well ." Rewritten
 * "The airport is a replacement for the old Mandurriao Airport located in Iloilo City proper and opened its doors to commercial traffic on June 14, 2007." - awkward sentence, it should probably be split into two sentences. Also, is the "old" really necessary? Rewritten
 * "With the closure of Mandurriao Airport, Iloilo International Airport inherited its IATA and ICAO airport codes from the former, as well as its position as the fourth-busiest airport in the Philippines.[1]" Done
 * "The airport is located 19 kilometers (12 mi) northwest of Iloilo City on a 188-hectare (465-acre) site between the municipalities of Cabatuan and Santa Barbara,[2] with the main entrance and airport access road in Santa Barbara and the rest of the airport infrastructure in Cabatuan." - I'm not sure if that comma should be there. Additionally, there's a list with two occurences of "and," which I'm fairly sure is grammatically incorrect. Rewritten. The comma is valid in that location per the conventions of Philippine English, so it was kept.
 * Sometimes you use the leading comma (i.e. "1, 2, and 3") and sometimes not (i.e. "1, 2 and 3"). Be consistent. Fixed
 * "Iloilo International Airport is designated as a secondary international airport by the Air Transportation Office, a body of the Department of Transportation and Communications that is responsible for the operations of not only this airport but also of all other airports in the Philippines except the major international airports." - "airports" is written out in full many times (I can't count); it feels awkward to read it. Perhaps the last occurrence can be changed to "ones" instead. Rewritten


 * Completed items are struck out and comments are bolded. I also intend to give the article a good copy-edit, which I am doing per section. -- Sky Harbor  02:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I can't quite support the prose, but if the lead is spotless, then that's good, so I withdraw my oppose. Anyways, a word of advice: Generally you shouldn't strike out others' comments. I'm not personally bothered by it, but it's etiquette to let them strike it out or otherwise indicate that it's no longer an issue themselves. Nousernamesleft copper, not wood 02:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I do apologize if I unintentionally sent the wrong message by means of striking out comments for my own convenience. Typing is such hard work!  But, of course, thanks so much for the comments.  I'll keep the advice in mind.  -- Sky Harbor  02:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment on images
 * Image:Iloilo Airport Exterior.jpg, Image:Iloilo Airport Interior.jpg, and Image:Iloilo Airport Access Road.jpg needs a linkable source and/or evidence for the Attribution license, such as an OTRS ticket or a link to page providing permission. Kelly  hi! 05:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Permission was granted via a message posted on the SkyscraperCity forum where I asked for these pictures. That would involve this message.  I was free to choose the license for the pictures, so I used said license instead.  The link will be posted on the summaries of the pictures. -- Sky Harbor  09:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Link posting done. -- Sky Harbor  09:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sky Harbor, I'm sorry but I'm afraid the permission is not adequate - there is no license specified, and the permission seems to be for Wikipedia only. Unless this can be improved I fear the images will likely have to be deleted under WP:CSD. See WP:COPYREQ for what is required in an image license permission. Kelly  hi! 12:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have written to the owner of the pictures regarding this issue (he is an inactive Wikipedian, as far as I know). I hope I can extract like an e-mail (or something) from him and post the results here.  Frankly, I don't even know how to file an OTRS ticket.  Updates will be posted as they come. -- Sky Harbor  13:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's pretty simple - once you get the license, forward it to "permissions-en AT wikmedia.org" including a link to the image pages. A volunteer will put the OTRS ticket # on the image pages. WP:COPYREQ has the details. Kelly  hi! 13:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The creator of the pictures has given (clarified) permission to release the pictures under said license. See this and this.  He will likewise prepare a formal letter for forwarding to the OTRS system.  (On a side note, I will really need to move my schedule for this article given that this will probably not reach FA and Main Page display by Saturday, as I hoped.) -- Sky Harbor  12:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

←Oppose—1a
 * "The airport is a replacement for Mandurriao Airport located in Iloilo City proper, having opened its doors to commercial traffic on 14 June 2007." Which one opened its doors? Don't make the reader backtrack to verify.
 * "a body of the Department of Transportation and Communications responsible for the operation of all airports in the Philippines"—So there are other bodies that do this too? Why "a"?
 * "Meanwhile" serves no earthly purpose.
 * Getting tired of "is located in/at".
 * Clumsy grammar: "It is one of three international airports in the Visayas, the others being Mactan-Cebu International Airport in Cebu City and Bacolod-Silay City International Airport in Bacolod City, the first international airport in Western Visayas, and the first international airport built on the island of Panay." Could you replace with: "It is one of three international airports in the Visayas; the others are Mactan-Cebu International Airport in Cebu City and Bacolod-Silay City International Airport in Bacolod City, the first international airport in Western Visayas, and the first international airport built on the island of Panay."?
 * "Its construction"—The poor reader has to pause to determine which of the preceding nominals "its" refers to.
 * "Comes some ten years"—Remove "some": or is it 11 years? And present tense will date; isn't it already built?
 * "Philipino" (language)—Isn't it called "tagalog"? English is also an official Philipino language.

The whole thing needs serious massaging by a new collaborator. TONY  (talk)  15:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I am looking for new people willing to do copy-editing on the article. A follow-up on your points:


 * Rewritten.
 * There are four agencies that operate airports: the ATO handles all airports in the Philippines excluding three major international airports (Ninoy Aquino International Airport, Diosdado Macapagal International Airport and Mactan-Cebu International Airport), which have independent airport operators also under the DOTC. However, I have changed "a body of..." to "the primary body of...".
 * Removed in sentence rewrite.
 * Sentence rewritten.
 * Sentence replaced with your suggestion.
 * Sentence was removed.
 * See above
 * Filipino (not "Philipino") remains as is. Tagalog may be the basis of Filipino, but it is politically incorrect to say that it is "Tagalog", especially in the Visayas and Mindanao.  Filipino is only known as "Tagalog" in Metro Manila and in Tagalog-speaking provinces (note: the province and even the region where the airport is located primarily speaks Hiligaynon).  English likewise is an official language of the Philippines.


 * I hope the resolution of these points bring it one step closer to being able to reach this status. Thank you so much for the review. -- Sky Harbor  10:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose, concur that a serious copy-edit is needed. A new editor can also spot and trim some of the minutiae scattered throughout.  Two elevators, one for "very important persons"?  I know it's a small airport and such mundane details are available, but we need a cutoff for what is notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia.  A lot of randomly slapped-together bits that don't flow well. Example issues:
 * "It runs at 02°/20°, the same as Mandurriao Airport." I don't know what this means.
 * "Runway lights and an Instrument Landing System were also installed, making the airport capable of supporting landings during periods of low visibility and at night." Excessively wordy&mdash;could say the same thing in half as many words.
 * "The airport has a 12,000-square-meter (130,000 sq ft) main passenger terminal designed to handle around 1.2 million passengers annually." How does it "handle" them?
 * "... making Iloilo International Airport capable of supporting up to six aircraft simultaneously." Suggest different wording so it doesn't read like the aircraft are on top of the airport.
 * "Some airlines, however, such as Air Philippines, do not make use of the airport's jet bridges." Not sure why this is relevant.  It's also unsourced.
 * "A train linking Iloilo International Airport to Iloilo City proper, similar to the Airport Express in Hong Kong and similar systems in other cities, is being studied. A feasibility study has since been commissioned by the city government." A study has been commissioned since its being studied?  I don't understand. -- Laser brain   (talk)  05:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Follow-up on your points:
 * Rewritten to say "The runway runs at a direction of 02°/20°...".
 * Rewritten to read "...making the airport capable of supporting low-visibility and night landings."
 * Changed to "...designed to accommodate around 1.2 million passengers annually."
 * Changed to "handling". I hope I am using this in the right context.
 * Can a picture count as a source? However, I removed this.
 * Rewritten to read "...A study to determine the feasibility of a train service..."
 * As always, thank your for your comments. I hope I have been able to bring this article a little bit closer to getting FA. -- Sky Harbor  10:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.