Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Iloilo International Airport/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 03:08, 21 February 2009.

Iloilo International Airport

 * ''Nominator(s): Sky Harbor (talk)
 * previous FAC 02:17, June 18, 2008

I'm nominating this article again for FAC after significant improvements from the version previously submitted at FAC. Currently, the article is now a good article, and although I was hesitant, I think the article now meets the FA criteria after three successive peer reviews and a lot of improvement since last year. Comments are highly appreciated, and hope this is ready to go! --Sky Harbor (talk) 02:11, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments: relating to the lead:- "'Iloilo International Airport, which began operating on June 14, 2007, is the fourth busiest airport in the Philippines. It serves the area around Iloila City in Iloila province, within the Western Visayas region. It opened after a decade of planning...' etc."
 * This opening sentence is not compelling: "Iloilo International Airport is the international airport serving the general area of Iloilo city, the capital city of the province of Iloilo and the regional center of the Western Visayas region of the Philippines." Note the repetitions. It isn't necessary to say that an international airport is an international airport; it isn't clear if the three subclauses (the general area of Iloilo city, the capital city of the province of Iloilo, and the regional center of the Western Visayas region) are independent, or whether the lasr two are descriptive of the first. A more direct, informative opening, using other material from the lead, might be:-

You would obviously need to reword other parts of the lead to avoid repeating information. A few other suggestions:-
 * Terms like "airport" do not need linking
 * "Likewise" connects two sentences that don't appear related to each other, in terms of their content
 * There is a tendency toward overdetailing in the lead. The purpose of the lead is to provide a broad general summary of the article's content; there is no need for exact distances or measurements.

I will try to read the whole article later, and to perhaps make further comments. Brianboulton (talk) 11:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to rewrite the lead, actually. --Sky Harbor (talk) 11:45, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments -
 * What makes http://www.exploreiloilo.com/ a reliable source?
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:53, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * In Philippine Internet circles, it's one of the most reliable websites pertaining to the province in question. The articles used as references (or portions thereof) have even been cited in Philippine periodicals (see this), although in general, Filipinos are very trusting of off-the-beaten-path websites and blogs. --Sky Harbor (talk</b>) 11:45, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This one I'll leave out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:21, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments I am actually inclined to support, but: Ruslik (talk) 13:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Can you provide citations for two sentences in 'Runway' section (marked with cn tags).
 * 2) In the table it is written that Zest Airways begins services to Manila on 22 February, but the year is not specified.


 * For the first one, they were cited but the citations (which are the same as the first one) were removed because of problems involving overciting. I checked the edit history and it seems that you added citations to almost all the sections, and in certain sections (such as the ones in transportation), it appears overcited.  On the second one, per WP:AIRPORTS, the year should not be mentioned unless the flight commences 13 months or later from the date. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 13:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This statement (and others similar) implies an exchange rate: is that from the source, or is it original research?
 * ... with a final cost of around 8.8 billion pesos ($201 million) ... Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's based on the exchange rate at the time (P48.85 per US$1 at the Manila Times) and was a suggestion raised at the article's first PR. Philippine news media does not cite the cost of the project in currencies other than the Philippine peso.  However, if simple conversion proves to be OR despite the presence of the official exchange rate at the time, I would not object to removing it. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 16:38, 7 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Inconsistent date formats: the article uses month day, year, while the citations have a mixture of ISO dates and day month year. There are three different date formats. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:39, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I tested changing the dates in some of the citation templates in the article. I think though the date format for retrieval is hard-coded to show it in the European format.  The ISO format was there because previously, when it was entered, it would be converted automatically into the European format.  There's no way to change the format to the American format in the current template. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 11:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Just replace the ISO dates with the American formatted dates in the "accessdate" and "date" fields. Jappalang (talk) 02:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I tried that, and while it came out correctly on the date when the article was published, when it came to the date of access, it still showed dates in the European format. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 14:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The cite news template is forcing an International date format (dmy) for accessdate. I have raised the issue at its Talk page (Template talk:Cite news).   Jappalang (talk) 02:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * All dates have been made uniform, conforming to the American format in the template syntax. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 16:38, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Image concerns as follows: The second can likely be resolved in fair time, but one wonders what happened to the assurances for the first. Jappalang (talk) 11:55, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Iloilo Airport Access Road.jpg, File:Iloilo Airport Interior.jpg, and File:Iloilo Airport Exterior.jpg require an OTRS from the creator (or for him to specifically create a separate page with these photos on his website and explicitly releasing them into public domain or under a compatible CC license). A forum posting does not cut it, especially with the current wording.  The previous FAC, 6 months ago, stated that an OTRS will be given, but, up to now, nothing seems to have been done.
 * File:Iloilo Airport Opening.jpg requires a specific page (not image link) for verification. If the page link cannot be gotten, directions in the form of "Select 'Provincial Visits' under Related Links, then go to page 13" or "Search with 'Arroyo', 'airport', 'and Iloilo'" are acceptable.  Right now, one is hard pressed to know how to navigate to the image on the presidential site.


 * Response to image concerns:
 * The creator of the three images above apparently has not given me an OTRS until now. However, he is an inactive Wikipedian.  There were additional posts in the said forum, but I cannot find them in the archives.  I was supposed to replace the current summary with the typical "box" summary found in Commons, but I'm waiting to find the posts in question first.  If I cannot find them, I will ask him again for an OTRS.
 * I added the page where the image was taken from in the description.
 * Thanks a lot! --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 12:24, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Has the request for an OTRS been sent yet? Jappalang (talk) 16:33, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I e-mailed him and I'm waiting for a response. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 11:15, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The e-mail has been forwarded to Commons OTRS and the pictures have been tagged with OTRS-pending. However, the pictures are uploaded here instead of Commons.  If given the time, I may move them. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 02:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The OTRS request was approved and have been noted in the respective image pages. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 13:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * All images issues resolved. Jappalang (talk) 01:31, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Oppose from Dr pda. There are many prose issues, the lead contains out of date information, some information is not supported by the given references and there are concerns about the lead, an image and a source raised above. More specifically: Dr pda (talk) 11:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Examples of prose problems
 * Likewise, being the first international airport in Western Visayas and the first international airport built on the island of Panay in Iloilo, it is one of three international airports in the Visayas; the others being Mactan-Cebu International Airport in Cebu City and Bacolod-Silay City International Airport in Bacolod City. This sentence is very wordy, and includes information not contained in the body of the article. A better phrasing would be Iloilo airport is one of three international airports in the Visayas, and the first in the Western Visayas
 * Its location on the Tomas Confesor Highway, a major highway transversing the island, makes the airport accessible from all parts of Iloilo and Panay via various road-based transportation options, while its proximity to the currently defunct Panay Railways network could potentially link the airport to the rest of Panay by rail. The phrase via various road-based transportation options can be reduced to simply by road. Also it is not the "proximity" which provides a rail link.
 * proper is overused in phrases like Iloilo city proper. Sometimes this distinction is necessary, but not all the uses in the article require it.
 * Similarly, much mention is made of the airport's commercial activity, or the first commercial flights. This implies that there is other types of activity or flights, but these are not mentioned. In a number of cases the word commercial could just be dropped.
 * This is not an exhaustive list.
 * The lead says It is designated as a secondary international airport by the Air Transportation Office The ATO was replaced by the Civil Aviation Authority around a year ago; the CAAP has revamped the classification system. Iloilo is now a "Principal, Class 1" airport. See this pdf from http://www.caap.gov.ph/Downloads/.
 * While on this topic, the fact that no international flights have operated from the airport should be mentioned in the lead; the reader doesn't find this out until (if!) they read down as far as the Airlines and destinations section. Indeed some of the sources I looked at refer to the airport as Iloilo airport of international standard rather than Iloilo international airport. This fact is not mentioned in the section on the name either.
 * The last sentence of the lead says It is said to be the most beautiful and modern airport in the country and a symbol of the Philippines' new-found economic strength.[4] The cited reference is to the President's speech at the inauguration of the airport. It is said is misleading, since this was something said only on one occasion, rather than a sentiment which is commonly expressed. Also the speech said the airport was a symbol of our collective political will and the people’s support, which is different from new-found economic strength.
 * The Runway section says Unlike the runway at Mandurriao, the longer runway at Iloilo International Airport can support aircraft as large as the Boeing 767 and the Airbus A330. Larger aircraft, such as the Boeing 747 and the Airbus A340, can be supported, albeit with weight restrictions. The citation at the end of the paragraph only refers to the A330, not any of the other types of aircraft, and doesn't mention weight restrictions.
 * The Airlines and destinations table is not sourced. The text of this section needs to be checked to make sure it represents the current situation, e.g. a study is currently being conducted, is considering a direct route, On January 31, 2008, the Iloilo city government announced that Cebu Pacific was considering starting international services—what happened with this?
 * www.exploreiloilo.com, which is the source questioned above, now quotes part of this article in its article on the airport.
 * The statement that the new airport inherited the position of fourth-busiest airport from its predecessor Mandurriao is problematic. It is true that Mandurriao was the fourth busiest airport, based on 2006 statistics, and Iloilo did replace Mandurriao, but I don't think it is possible to therefore conclude that Iloilo is now the fourth-busiest airport in the Philippines without seeing some more recent statistics.
 * Also a map showing the airport's location (perhaps based on File:RP airports.PNG) would be good, as would a diagram of the airport's layout.


 * To answer some of the points raised above:


 * The name "Iloilo International Airport" is used in quite a number of news sources, including but not limited to the Philippine Daily Inquirer, the Sun.Star Iloilo, the Manila Standard Today and the Manila Bulletin. People as prominent as Franklin Drilon (President of the Senate at the time), who was the strongest supporter of the project, publicly called it "Iloilo International Airport".  Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo herself called it an international airport.  A local survey (albeit non-scientific) shows that a plurality of the surveyed residents would prefer keeping the name "Iloilo International Airport", and the naming controversy surrounding the airport and the proposals formed as a result thereof (which are "Panay International Airport" and "Graciano Lopez-Jaena International Airport") would imply that if the proposals failed, the airport would be called "Iloilo International Airport".  The "airport of international standards" nomenclature only describes domestic airports whose facilities are up to accepted international norms, and is not a separate classification for an airport as implied in most news media.
 * I took the time to clean out the lead and correct any misleading information. Classification information was updated, for one, and the definition of an "international airport" in the article was expanded (this was done by adding Kalibo Airport, a domestic-standard airport which serves international flights to Taipei).  In addition, I have added a note stating that no international flights have either flown out of or into the airport.
 * No new statistics have been released by the CAAP yet, and I'm waiting for those as well. Although statistics from 2001 to 2007 statistics were supposedly released by the ATO on its website, the link is dead.  In addition, there is a pending request for an airport layout map with WikiProject Maps.
 * Unsourced information in the "Runway" section was removed.
 * The last line of the lead was clarified. The bit on "economic strength" was implicit, although "economic maturity" is explicit.


 * I'll take the time to address the other issues as soon as I can. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 11:45, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: I added a bit on how proposals to launch international flights have yet to materialize. Since this airport has no official website, I'm trying to find a way to cite these flights.  Airline timetables are too cumbersome. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 13:58, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Opposeby karanacs primarily based on prose issues, with a few sourcing concerns. Karanacs (talk) 16:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The prose definitely needs work. I echo Brianboulton's comments about the lead (none of which appear to have been addressed).  EXAMPLES of issues (these need to be addressed throughout the article, not just here)
 * Watch for repetition within sentences/paragraphs. For example, the first sentence of the lead uses the words "international airport" twice in 7 words.
 * Some of the sentences are long and unwieldy (for example, the lead's first sentence and its second sentence)
 * Watch for pronoun/antecedent match. The second sentence of the lead begins "it".  While I know you are discussing the airport, the proper antecedent could be Iloilo City.
 * Make sure the text is not contradictory. For example, if the airport is designated by the Philippines as domestic, why does the lead describe it as an international airport anyway? (not counting the title)
 * Don't use unnecessary words. Why is "likewise" in the first paragraph of the lead?  That doesn't make sense.  See User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a for assistance with this
 * Watch for words like "currently", "recently", etc. - we need some type of reference to when this was.
 * Is it really important in the lead to list the other international airports by name? That seems too detailed for the overview.
 * The first paragraph of the history section doesn't make it clear why the "Iloilo" committee was created - what about those four airports that were studied necessitated a committee dedicated to the Iloilo area? You may need to first discuss the recommendations of the report.
 * The history section seems a bit out of chronological order to me, especially the organization within the second paragraph. That is confusing.
 * There don't need to be subsections in the terminals section - those subsections are each small.
 * Why does the airlines and destinations section begin with a table? The table is fairly small and should likely be stationed to the side of the text in this section. At the very least, the section needs to begin with a text introduction.
 * I don't think that [] is a reliable source.  The link you gave showing that it was "cited by a periodical" went to a forum posting.
 * There are quite a few links to press releases, which are self-published sources. Is there any way to get this information from a more reliable, independent source?


 * To address the issues raised above:


 * The airlines and destinations list is based on the adopted structure for airport articles. Ben Gurion International Airport, currently the only airport FA, does no better by using a table and lists with prose describing which terminal airlines operate from, as well as the airport's largest airlines.  I did add though some prose above the table describing the airlines that serve the airport.
 * Removed date-specific references to international flights. This was a contentious issue in this article's PRs in the past, and removal should make it more neutral.
 * The Iloilo Airport Coordinating Committee was formed in anticipation of future traffic demand, of which Mandurriao Airport, Iloilo's old airport, was a part of. Although it is true that Mandurriao Airport was over capacity for several years prior to the opening of this airport, there are few, if any, reliable sources that exist to verify this claim.  The committee was formed in 1998, at a time when Internet content in the Philippines, particularly that of the government, was virtually in its infancy.  The memorandum is not available online.
 * There are two terminals (passenger and cargo, which are also separate buildings), and the subsections exist to delineate them. Citing again Ben Gurion International Airport, two subsections in its terminals section, specifically pertaining to Terminal 2 and Terminal 4, are three-sentence long subsections.  The delineation exists to avoid any confusion that can arise from merging the subsections together.
 * The second paragraph's order is based on the source's order. However, this has been re-ordered
 * I made a few changes to the prose of the lead, cutting long-winding sentences, removing the other three international airports and changing (as well as removing) a few terms here and there.
 * There are only six citations which come from government sources (both national and local). That pales in comparison to the 45 citations which cite other, more independent news outlets.  Most Philippine newspapers do not have archives which date to 2004 (eliminating the possibility of replacing citations from the Office of the Press Secretary), while sources from the PNA and PIA are also republished by newspapers wholesale.  An example would be Feature: The new Iloilo Airport in perspective by the PIA and A look at the new Iloilo Airport by The News Today, which takes the PIA article wholesale but giving it a different title.


 * Thanks for the comments and, if I find any other problems with the article, I will try to resolve them as quickly as possible. --<b style="color:#0066ff;">Sky Harbor</b> (<b style="color:#0066ff;">talk</b>) 00:26, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.