Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Independiente (Ricardo Arjona album)/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 16:35, 1 November 2012.

Independiente (Ricardo Arjona album)

 * Nominator(s): — ΛΧΣ  21™  04:14, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Independiente (English: Independent), released 4 October 2011, is the thirteenth studio album by Guatemalan singer-songwriter Ricardo Arjona. Recorded in the United States and Mexico, it was produced by Arjona with Dan Warner and Lee Levin (under their stage name, Los Gringos) and Puerto Rican singer-songwriter Tommy Torres. Arjona released the album under his independent record label, Metamorfosis; it was the first that he released as an independent musician after being signed by signed by Sony Music (in 1993) and Warner Music (in 2008). — ΛΧΣ  21™  04:14, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Quick media comment - the description pages for the two media files need to specify the length of the complete song. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:30, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * OMG thanks for the comment. Will do as soon as possible. — ΛΧΣ  21™  03:43, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  21:04, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments from Tomica
 * As I can see from the tables the album was first released on September 23, 2011, not October 4, 2011. You should use the first release date. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The album was a commercial success... I think you should remove this. Let the tables speak by themselves for it. Commercial success can be relative. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * He concluded, "music and women look better with little clothes". I find this a bit repetitive in the Background section. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I see a lot of quotes in the Background section, try to reduce them if possible. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Change all the #1, #4 to number-one, number-four or there is number upper than ten use numeric digits per WP:NUMBERS. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Change Black and white to Black-and-white. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * who told him she did not like it because it make her cry. Isn't this kind of trivial? — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * In the Background section you didn't link Miami or Mexico City, but linked Los Angeles in the Singles. Why? Those cities are not more known than LA (they are on same leve). Either link them or unlink LA. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * which was released for Mother's Day. Again, I find this trivial. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * was released on June. Awkward prose. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * and plans to visit the Americas and Europe.. Isn't the show over? Further sentence in the section should be changed to past tense too. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * which debuted that week. WP:TRIVIA again. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Why does the iTunes Store Bonus Track hasn't a writer and producer? — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Because it is a video, not a song. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You added the Cono Sur Version only for one track difference? Maybe you can just put note in the standard track listing for the song and the release of this edition ? — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The countries in the release history section should be ordered alphabetically in their corespondent date. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I ordered them as much as I could without damaging the table. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ref number 1 misses publisher. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  20:41, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Same as number 2. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  20:41, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ref 18: Informador.com.mx, shouldn't be in italics. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  20:41, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:OVERLINK in the references. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The references need some additional formatting. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * On it. — ΛΧΣ  21™  19:05, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * All in all the prose is good and the article has a potential for becoming a FA, however, there are some issues that should be resolved first. These are the preliminary I found during the rough analyze of the article. — Tomíca (T2ME) 22:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Jesse V.
 * I noticed that this article has some deadlinks and other redirect issues. Please see this Checklinks entry. &bull; Jesse V.(talk) 00:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've fixed them all. Only one redlink stays there but is the original version of an url that has been archived, so that the source is not dead. Regards. — ΛΧΣ  21™  04:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Comments. All in all it's good though. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 05:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "This is heard on his twelfth studio album, Poquita Ropa." - probably should be past tense.
 * The first composition paragraph needs to have a source at the end.
 * When was the album released in the US?
 * "Arjona wrote the song for his mother, Noemí Morales[22] " - a period is missing. Were you planning expanding that sentence?
 * "As of July 2012, the song has reached number ten in Mexico" - given that it's October, has anything changed since July?
 * "As of June 2012 the album has spent a total of 13 weeks at the top of the Latin Pop Albums chart, the most for Arjona." - this needs a source. You should update all of the "as of"... months.
 * The critical reaction section seems a bit small.
 * I have fixed all. Thanks! — ΛΧΣ  21™  05:44, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The only thing out of date is the "As of April 2012" for the tour. Given that the tour ended in August, you should get an updated source. Also, was there any negative feedback to the album? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:23, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I will see what I can do. And no, he never receives negative feedback from journalists, with one single exception :). — ΛΧΣ  21™  15:25, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I just discovered that the tour isn't over yet. Dates for november were recently added. — ΛΧΣ  21™  15:27, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * What about non-journalists? Any fan reviews? Any international poor reviews? What about iTunes ratings? That section just doesn't seem that balanced for an FA. And cool about the tour, that's worth having. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing about reviews, or at least reviews that could be FA-level. I can't add iTunes ratins and fan reviews because they are not considered as reliable enough, as well as non-journalists (sadly). And even if added, I haven't found a negative review of the album yet, even by fans (maybe yes on iTunes but I can't add it ofc). XD —  ΛΧΣ  21™  15:55, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Oppose Comments – I'm beginning to dig into this article, and so far it seems there is still work needed to be done with regards to prose and coherence. A look at the lead presents these concerns, although some are nitpicking, so I've chosen not to oppose at the moment.
 * Consecutive paragraphs in the lead are opening the same way: "Independiente...". Please add some variety.
 * Done.  Miniapolis  ( talk ) 14:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * "Recorded in the United States and Mexico, it was produced by Arjona with Dan Warner and Lee Levin (under their stage name, Los Gringos) and Puerto Rican singer-songwriter Tommy Torres." – it is not really a stage name, but more so a band name. Perhaps instead "Arjona with Los Gringos (a duo that comprises Dan Warner and Lee Levin)" would work better; this way, there is no confusion as to whether Los Gringos also includes Arjona or not.
 * Already reworded in the lead.  Miniapolis  ( talk ) 14:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * "Arjona released the album under his independent record label, Metamorfosis; it was the first that he released as an independent musician after being signed by Sony Music (in 1993) and Warner Music (in 2008)." – I feel as though this can be condensed to a more concise version. It is really fluffy the way it is structured right now.
 * Done.  Miniapolis  ( talk ) 14:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The lead does not say that this is a Spanish language album (or whatever language it is, because it certainly is not English). That would help clarify a lot.
 * Already done.  Miniapolis  ( talk ) 14:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm stopping there. You do appear to have put quite some effort into this article, so good work. — WP: PENGUIN  · [ TALK ]  21:00, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "Independiente was composed and written within a year, and it marks the fourth collaboration of that Arjona and Torres." – (1) If you are implying that it took around a year to make the album, than just "in" is good enough instead of "within" (plainer). (2) The second clause is ungrammatical.
 * "In the album, Arjona returns to his trademark sound after his stylistic departure on Poquita Ropa (2010)." – "returns to" reads oddly with "In the album". "For Independiente" is more appropriate and makes more sense literally. Also, mentioning the title here works better because it helps distinguish from the other album mentioned in the sentence, Poquita Rope, as well as the fact that the next sentence begins as "On that album", which too sounds strange (that).
 * "On that album he used fewer instruments to simplify his sound, introducing what has been called a "stripped-down acoustic effort" in his music." – This altogether sounds weak and irrelevant because it refers to a previous album.
 * "Independiente became Arjona's fourth number-one album on the Billboard Top Latin Albums (where it debuted at the top the chart for the week ending 22 October 2011)." – reading this aloud makes me concerned about what to expect further down. Hint: "at the top the chart". But this could have just been an accidental typo, so I'll assume good faith. Also, "the chart" is totally redundant. And are the parentheses really necessary?
 * "Within a week of release the album was certified gold in Chile, the United States and Mexico and certified platinum in Venezuela and Argentina." – "Within a week of release" is awkward; try "Within one week after its release".
 * I'm wondering if all those chart accomplishments of the singles are necessary in the lead, which is meant to be a broad and brief summary of the article. Try trimming some of that down.
 * This needs parallel structuring: " The third single, "Mi Novia Se Me Está Poniendo Vieja", was released in May 2012 and the fourth, "Te Quiero", in July of that year."
 * I have fixed most of these issues and asked the article's GOCE copyditor to take a look. Thanks for your comments. — ΛΧΣ  21™  05:06, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've fixed what I've been able to find; some indication of where the issues in question are in the article would be helpful. I use parentheses {judiciously} to improve the comprehensibility of very long sentences when I don't have time to rewrite them. All the best,  Miniapolis  ( talk ) 14:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding. Regarding the last point, the sentence sounds incomplete. "... and the fourth, 'Te Quiero', was released in July" would make the sentence structure more solid. Also, "record" is better in "The recording was composed and written in a year" because a recording refers to a single track/song. A compilation of recordings could be called a record (CD). I'm also thinking "for" in place of "on" would be clearer here, "stylistic departure on Poquita Ropa (2010)". If you need any more clarifications, feel free to let me know. Best regards. — WP: PENGUIN  · [ TALK ]  18:24, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have fixed these little issues you raised. Thanks for reviewing the article, Penguin :). — ΛΧΣ  21™  03:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There are a few more concerns I have with regard to the lead:
 * The title itself in place of "The album" sounds nicer in "The album—the first independent release by Arjona after he was signed by Sony Music in 1993 and Warner Music in 2008—was issued by his own label, Metamorfosis." It's more specific and fits well with the info inside the dashes. ANother thing: is "own" necessary? To me, it seems redundant.
 * Could the lead say anything about Independiente's music? We are told that it features Arjona's "trademark sound", but what is this style exactly?
 * Careful about introducing typos: "Independiente became became Arjona's fourth number-one album on the Billboard Top Latin Albums where it debuted for the week ending 22 October 2011." Also, there should be a comma after "Albums" because it is non-restrictive. And what is meant by "where it debuted for the week ending 22 October 2011" exactly? It sounds like an unfinished thought.
 * "The second single, "Fuiste Tú" (featuring Gaby Moreno), reached number one on the Latin Pop Songs, number two on the Latin Songs charts and topped several other national charts." – several? I only counted one national singles chart (Venezuela Top 100) and four other (non-national) charts. This sentence needs to be revised.
 * Likewise, "The lead single, "El Amor", became a commercial success in several Latin American countries and was number one on the Billboard Latin Songs and Latin Pop Songs charts" also says "several", although the only Latin American countries it charted in were Mexico and Venezuela.
 * The lead still needs more work before it can be considered FA quality. I have not read the rest of the article, but this list shows that there may be more problems further down. Special attention should be payed to how smoothly the prose flows and whether it reads professionally. I feel like there are bumps and rough places here and there. With that said, I do feel that the potential is there. There just needs to be a bit more work needed. But I agree that the Critical section is a bit dry and largely comprises long quotations. If this can somehow be addressed, the quality of the section will greatly improve. This FAC has lasted quite some time now, and I have to put in a !vote. — WP: PENGUIN  · [ TALK ]  18:54, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.