Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Iraq War in Anbar Province/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 03:23, 30 August 2012.

Iraq War in Anbar Province

 * Nominator(s): Palm_Dogg (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I have been working on this article on and off for the past 2.5 years. It has been Peer Reviewed, achieved GA Status, and just passed an A-Class Review. I pulled its previous previous FAC nomination over sourcing concerns, so that's probably where you should dig for issues. My ultimate goal is to have this ready for Main Page status for the ten-year anniversary of the Iraq War next spring, so no rush. Palm_Dogg (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Image review
 * Caption for first body map needs editing for grammar, as does the MRAP image
 * Fixed? Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Map is fine; MRAP mine weight should be an adjective. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:41, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, should be good now. Palm_Dogg (talk) 20:44, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Captions that are not complete sentences should not end in periods
 * Fixed? (If not, please let me know which images you are referring to) Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)


 * One of the files appears to be a redlink?
 * Removed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Does Iraq allow freedom of panorama? If not, images that include buildings in Iraq should reflect that
 * I'm not sure. Which images were you referring to? Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ramadi aerial, Guard_Tower_at_Abu_Ghraib_Prison.jpg, Fallujah_2004.JPG, possibly 2nd_Battalion_1st_Marines_Firefight_in_Fallujah_2004.jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:41, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Does not, so I've removed all listed images. Palm_Dogg (talk) 20:44, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * File:115th_Military_Police_Company_in_Fallujah.jpg should use Army tag rather than general Government one; same with File:115th_MP_Company_doing_a_vehicle_search_in_Fallujah.jpg
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)


 * File:BrooklynBridgeFallujah.JPG: author and licensing info don't seem to correspond
 * Removed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Why are you using the Marine Corps tag for images where author is listed as "US Army"?
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Nikkimaria (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)
 * "not interfere in social issues": This quote appears twice.
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 13:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "allegedly crucified": This is not the kind of thing you want to allege without giving some explanation in the text of how believable it is, where the information comes from.
 * It's legit, US military via an ACLU FOIA request, but the link has been pulled so I just removed the whole bit. Palm_Dogg (talk) 13:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good. To be clear, I wasn't saying it wasn't legit. We've had some very tough judgment calls over the years with how much specific advice to put in WP:WTW, specifically the WP:ALLEGED section. There's not a lot there now; I'd prefer that we add something like: "If you're alleging wrongdoing, put something in the text that gives the readers a clue what kind of weight they should assign to the allegation, and the more heinous the allegation, the more in-text justification it needs. If the necessary justification feels like too much of a distraction from the main points of the narrative, consider removing the allegation just as a matter of promoting tight and focused writing, even when our WP:Biographies of living persons policy and other policies would allow it." - Dank (push to talk) 14:26, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I've reviewed the changes made since I reviewed this for A-class. - Dank (push to talk) 21:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * Images all are PD-USGOV, mostly army or marines
 * All insurgent media is fair-use, not PD. Every one I've added (File:NickBergandFiveMen.JPG, Americans Killed in Ramadi June 2004.jpg, CH-46E Helicopter Shot Down in Iraq, 2007.ogv) has been removed, so I don't know what to tell you on that. Palm_Dogg (talk) 02:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


 * PDFs--some have the |format=PDF parameter, some don't, Pls make them consistent.
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 02:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Pumpkin Sky  talk  01:44, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, nope on the PDFs, you missed three in the book section. The insurgent photos aren't there now so that's a non issue. Fix the PDFs and I'll support. Pumpkin Sky  talk
 * I must be blind, but I can't see them. Which ones? Palm_Dogg (talk) 00:37, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support OK now. Pumpkin Sky   talk  21:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Support: I reviewed this during the Milhist A-class review. There have been a few changes since then. I have reviewed these changes and I am happy that the article meets the Featured Article criteria. I have the following minor observations:
 * whitespace/table of contents: you might consider reducing the whitespace between the lead and the body of the article by employing TOC limit which can be set at different levels depending upon your preference. This is not mandatory, though;
 * endashes: "At the end of the invasion, the pro-Saddam forces in Anbar–the Ba'ath Party, the Republican Guard, the Fedayeen Saddam, and the Iraqi Intelligence Service–remained intact". I think these endashes should be spaced or they should be unspaced emdashes (you seem to later use spaced endashes in the Withdrawal section, so it would probably be best to be consistent);
 * slight repetition: " Four Rangers were awarded the Silver Star for the action.[19][20] Four Rangers were killed when their checkpoint..." (both sentences start the same way. Can this be reworded slightly?)
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "American media compared the attack on the mercenaries to the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu..." Should this be "The American media compared the attack on the mercenaries to the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu..."?
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * in the Human rights abuses section, this seems a little unclear: " During their yearlong stay in Hīt, they watched AQI fighters kidnap a man for talking back to them; they later dumped the man's body on his doorstep." (The second "they" is the issue. First you have used "they" to apply to the family, then you have used "they" to apply to the AQI);
 * Fixed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * contractions: in a couple of places contractions are used in the prose. In the quotes they are fine, but I think where they are not in quotes, it is probably best to avoid them (for instance in the Insurgent abuses and Reactions sections). Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * additional (sorry I missed this before): the duplicate link checker reports a number of examples of potential overlink. Some of them may be okay, but others should probably be delinked. Some examples include: Shia Islam, Haditha Dam, Coalition Provisional Authority, Euphrates, Donald Rumsfeld, James T. Conway, James Mattis, United States Central Command, John Abizaid, Vietnam War, 2nd Battalion 4th Marines, 2nd Battalion 1st Marines, Iraqi Interim Government, Rocket-propelled grenade, Navy Cross, Medal of Honor, etc. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:57, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Spotchecks: The spotcheck the first go-round turned up some problems. I've asked for a spotcheck at WT:MIL. - Dank (push to talk) 13:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Spotchecks
 * Article: Within several months of the invasion the province had become a sanctuary for anti-occupation fighters.[13]
 * Source: Server timeout
 * Article: By October, insurgent attacks had dropped to almost zero.[299]
 * Source: The Iraqis and Marines repulsed a 20-minute attack on the post in October but that's largely been it.
 * Article: On 5 November, the 2nd Marine Regiment launched Operation Steel Curtain against the border town of Husaybah.[196]
 * Source: The fighting opened a new phase in Operation Steel Curtain, an offensive that began Nov. 5 in the border town of Husaybah, about 200 miles west of Baghdad.
 * Article: The Marines claimed that the houses had been "declared hostile" and that training dictated "that all individuals in a hostile house are to be shot."[212]
 * Source: "I fired because I had been told the house was hostile and I was following my training that all individuals in a hostile house are to be shot," Mendoza told investigators.
 * Article: In addition to the five Iraqi men killed by the sedan, nineteen other men, women, and children were killed by Wutterich's squad as they cleared the houses.[213]
 * Source: In search of the bombers, Marines killed five young men yanked from a car near the explosion and then killed 19 family members in three nearby houses...Among the 19 killed in the houses were three women, seven children and a 76-year-old man confined to a wheelchair.
 * Article: MEF then began a series of operations in July, under the aegis of Operation Sayeed; in addition to clearing AQI from the western Euphrates, Sayeed was also an attempt to set the conditions for the Anbaris to participate in the December constitutional referendum, as well as regain control of the Iraqi borders.[199]
 * Source: In this interview, he discusses rebuilding the Iraqi security forces in al-Anbar Province and 11 named operationsconducted under the umbrella of Operation Sayeed. [ese operations were aimed at driving al-Qaeda from the western Euphrates River Valley, ensuring that people were allowed to vote in the October 2005 referendum elections, and restoring the control of the border to the Iraqi government...There were 11 named operations under the Sayeed umbrella.Those operations stretched from July of 2005 until just after the December ’05 elections.The purpose of those operations was to drive al-Qaeda from the western Euphrates River Valley and to eliminate that as a place where they could operate freely
 * Article: Shortly before the Marine offensive began, Sheikh Harith al-Dhari, chairman of the pro-insurgent Association of Muslim Scholars, said that "the Iraqi people view Fallujah as the symbol of their steadfastness, resistance and pride."[84]
 * Source: The leader of Iraq's hard-line Sunni clergy, Sheik Harith Dhari, retorted that an attack would prompt a Sunni boycott of elections scheduled for January...  "The Iraqi people view Fallouja as the symbol of their steadfastness, resistance and pride," Dhari said.
 * I can't see where it says that he was the chairman of the pro-insurgent Association of Muslim Scholars.
 * Otherwise, no issues. Graham Colm (talk) 12:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, so the last bit about Dhari is your only issue, or all the ones listed above? Palm_Dogg (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I can speak for Graham and confirm, yes, just the last point is at issue. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry about my minimalism – just the last point needs to addressed please. Graham Colm (talk) 17:53, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This bbc article has him as the leader of the association - if that helps...Fayedizard (talk) 09:01, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You could add this as a source after "chairman of the pro-insurgent Association of Muslim Scholars" and perhaps change "chairman" to "leader". Graham Colm (talk) 09:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we're still waiting on this last point to be actioned. Also it's generally preferred to have citation numbers in ascending order, i.e. 84 before 132. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Only if there's no reason to order them otherwise (major vs minor source, sources supporting different parts of a sentence, etc). Nikkimaria (talk) 14:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure I follow on "supporting different parts" ... so, if the refs are [5][1], that might mean that 5 supports the first part of the sentence and 1 supports the second part? - Dank (push to talk) 16:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. (You could use a mid-sentence ref instead, but some prefer not to do that). Nikkimaria (talk) 22:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, this last point has hopefully been addressed. Palm_Dogg (talk) 02:28, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Delegate's comment - The one issue following the spotchecking still needs to be addressed. Graham Colm (talk) 14:14, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Pinging. - Dank (push to talk) 03:43, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. Should be fixed now. Palm_Dogg (talk) 12:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Delegate's comment - As was pointed out above by Rupert 20 days ago, there are numerous duplicated links. Most terms should only be linked once (excluding the Lead). Please check for these, they include: Shia, Haditha Dam, CPA, Euphrates, Donald Rumsfeld, General James T. Conway, Operation Vigilant Resolve,  James Mattis,  CENTCOM,  John Abizaid,  2nd Battalion 1st Marines,   Vietnam War,  2nd Battalion 4th Marines ,  Iraqi Interim Government,   Muqtada al-Sadr, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi,  RPGs, Navy Cross, Medal of Honor,  United States Naval Institute's,  Proceedings, 1st Battalion 3rd Marines,  2nd Marine Regiment,  Central Command ,  Rawah,   cordon and search,  Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna,  2nd Battalion 7th Marines , 3rd Battalion 1st Marines,   Multi-National Force – Iraq,  Multi-National Force – Iraq,  sheikh,  3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion,  3rd Battalion 4th Marines, 2nd Battalion 3rd Marines,  15th Marine Expeditionary Unit ,  Karmah, Habbaniyah,  Fasal al Gaood,  Humvees,  Secretary of Defense ,  Department of Defense,  Al Asad Airbase, David Petraeus, Multi-National Force – Iraq,   Sheikh Sattar, George W. Bush,  Ayyub al-Masri ,  Rawa,  Karbala Governorate, Multi-National Forces West,   1st Armored Division, Operation Steel Curtain,  disproportionate use of firepower,  Al Qaim,  Thar Thar ,  Human Rights Watch,  Kim Sun-il,  Lake Tharthar,  Ahmed Abu Risha, Haditha killings Graham Colm (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Done? Palm_Dogg (talk) 01:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good, I think. Only one left according to the tool "Lake Tharthar" and that is probably fine given that it is a piped link earlier. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:38, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Query that may have been addressed previously: in the info box, the list of "belligerents" shows a US flag, above the "Multinational Forces West". The list for "strength" shows not a US flag but the MNFW logo. Then under "casualties and losses" we have the US, Republic of Iraq and, for the first time, the United Kingdom. If the multinational forces west is truly multinational, why is it listed under the US flag; whatever the flag is, why is it not consistent between categories? The MNF appears a curious beast, so I can understand the confusion; I'm just not entirely happy with the current solution. Our WP article on the MNF-Iraq describes it as being led by "the United States of America and its allies". The WP article on MNF-West at one point refers to it as a US unit. I realise we can't sort all those issues out under the guise of this FAC, but it would be good if the infobox was somehow more consistent. hamiltonstone (talk) 11:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Long story short, in Anbar Province the "Multinational" consisted of a unit of Azerbaijanis who pulled security at Haditha Dam. Those three UK soldiers were part of a unit brought in during the Second Battle of Fallujah, officially to secure part of the highway outside the city, but in reality to prevent Britain from criticizing the operation.  This was a one-time deal, and every search I've conducted has shown that the MNF in Anbar was overwhelmingly American. Palm_Dogg (talk) 02:32, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Delegate notes -- A few more style/formatting points:
 * In the Film/Television ref subheader, "Television" shouldn't be capitalised.
 * When using the cite video template, don't include the url parameter if you're linking the title.
 * Also in cite video, I believe you use "Motion picture" as a type, not "Cinema". Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Done? Palm_Dogg (talk) 02:38, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, just tweaked the title. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:20, 30 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.