Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Iveta Mukuchyan/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:28, 15 January 2019.

Iveta Mukuchyan
Iveta Mukuchyan is a German-Armenian singer-songwriter, model, and actress. Any additional comments on the article will be greatly appreciated. and, sorry I did not respond on your comments in the previous archive as I was very busy. However, now I have read your comments and corrected most of the article. Can you please take a look at it one more time? Harut111 (talk) 12:52, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Oppose from Aoba47
Apologies in advance, but I have to oppose this nomination based on the prose. There are several issues in the "Early life" section alone. They are the following: As you can see above, I have several comments for a relatively short section (i.e. I actually had a comment for every sentence in the section). Some of them are more minor; I have several clarification questions that you may not be able to answer if this information is not in the source, and that is fine. My primary problem with the section is that the information does not flow together very well. Apologies again, but I do not think that this is close to FA quality. Aoba47 (talk) 20:35, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I have two comments for this sentence (Iveta Mukuchyan was born on 14 October 1986 in Yerevan, Armenia, (then part of the Soviet Union), where she started kindergarten.). I would replaced this part "Armenia, (then part of the Soviet Union)" with the "Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic" to be more precise. It is clear from that wikilink she was born in an area of the Soviet Union that is not Armenia. I would also cut this part "where she started kindergarten" completely. It is generally assumed that a person attends kindergarten in the place of their birth, and unless her time in kindergarten was notable for some reason, it is not important enough for the reader.
 * I have a few comments for this sentence (Her mother, Susanna Ambaryan, worked in a tourist information center when his husband, Ruben Mukuchyan, went to Germany to buy a car.). The sentence construction is not great, particularly the use of "when", as it could imply that the mother only worked at the center during the time that Ruben went to buy this car. It should be "her" instead of "his" as I am assuming you are referring to Susanna. Since you are referring to Ruben as Susanna's husband rather than Iveta's father, is he Iveta's father? The connection is not made entirely clear. Also, could you clarify why Ruben had to go to a completely different country to buy a car?
 * For this sentence (However, he stayed in Germany due to unforeseen circumstances, therefore, Mukuchyan's mother decided to move the rest of the family to Germany in 1992.), could you clarify what you mean by "unforeseen circumstances"? You give the year when the family moved to Germany, but do you have a year for when Ruben went to Germany first? By "the rest of the family", do you mean just Iveta or more family members (as at this point you have not introduced her sister yet)?
 * I am not sure if this sentence is necessary (According to her mother, Mukuchyan first started singing before talking.). It is a cute anecdote, but it is seems somewhat trivial (and I doubt that it is true).
 * For this sentence (In 1995, the family returned to Armenia, however, they moved back to Germany because of the horrible conditions at the time.), could you clarify what you mean by "the horrible conditions"? Is it because the area was still controlled by the Soviet Union?
 * I would revise this sentence (According to Mukuchyan, her father was a patriot, a very strict man and he always demanded to speak Armenian at their home and marry an Armenian man.) to something like (Mukuchyan described her father as a patriot and a strict man who demanded she only speak Armenian at home and marry an Armenian man.)
 * Clarify which reference is used to support this part "while working part-time as a waitress in a café.".
 * I would revise this sentence (In Hamburg, Mukuchyan was a member of a music club and after singing Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On" at a ceremony, her parents believed that their daughter should become a singer.) to something like (While in Hamburg, Mukuchyan joined a music club and sang Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On" at a ceremony. Following the performance, her parents believed that she should become a singer.)
 * For this sentence (Following her parents' advice, Mukuchyan returned to Armenia in 2009.), could you clarify why her parents encouraged her to go back to Armenia?
 * I have a comment about this sentence (She studied at the Yerevan Komitas State Conservatory leaving her design studies, begun in Germany, unfinished). Her design studies are rather abruptly mentioned here. When did she begin these studies? Should you mention them earlier?
 * I would move the sentence about her sister to the top of this section, as it is better to described the subject's close family members before moving on to details about their early life. That way, the reader has a clear understanding of the family. Also, can you clarify if Marianna is her older or younger sister?
 * For this sentence (Mukuchyan has stated that she was always hiding in her sister's shadow in Germany), did she say any particular reason why Iveta felt like she was in her sister's shadow?
 * The genres in the infobox do not appear to be sourced anywhere in the article. They will need sources, or they will have to be removed.
 * Avoid WP:SHOUTING in the reference titles. Titles of sources should not be in all caps.

Oppose by Squeamish Ossifrage
Looking back, this article is on its third FAC appearance almost entirely due to a lack of reviewer engagement. Unfortunately, I also do not believe it is currently at the FA level. As noted above, there are quite a few problems with structure, flow, and overall prose. I'd like to focus on the sourcing concerns, however. I'm sorry that this article wasn't given the appropriate attention the first (or second...) time it appeared at FAC, because it might have afforded the opportunity to address the substantial issues before listing a third time. Regrettably, that means I have to oppose (1a, 1b, 1c, 2c). Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:29, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Facebook is, with very limited exceptions, not a reliable source. In this article, it's used to cite quite a few things – from Mukuchyan's own statements, to album releases, to magazine cover appearances and award nominations. These are not acceptable uses, especially at the FA level.
 * There are also several references that look like they might be reliable sources, but actually consist of a video being hosted by a third party. That's true for the footage from POP Hanragitaran, hosted at Hayfanat (this one might be a reliable source if cited correctly, but I'm not certain); and for a music video hosted without commentary at PressMedia.am (for whom I cannot find an editorial policy; their "About Us" link goes nowhere also, and I'm inclined to suspect this site is not an independent source).
 * In general, care hasn't been taken to cite sources appropriately. Quite a few of the references are little more than bare links, which makes evaluating their independence and reliability challenging. For example, reference #15 at the time of this writing gives only the source article's title, while linking to it. Missing from the reference are essential bibliographic details like the author (Padraig Muldoon), publication date, and the actual publication itself (Wiwibloggs, which... might actually be an RS despite the name). It's challenging for me to audit them all, especially the Armenian-language sources, but everything will need to be thoroughly checked.
 * Perhaps as part of the lack of care in reference documentation, at least some of these sources are not adequate to support the claims they are referencing. In particular, the statement that "De Jpta" was released "to benefit children with cancer" is referenced to this iTunes page which indicates nothing of the sort.
 * I'm uncertain of the notability of several of the awards. In particular, most of the discussion regarding the Daf Bama Awards is cited to Facebook; I'm unable to immediately determine if that is an indication that the awards themselves are not notable or merely further issues with quality source selection.
 * Furthermore, this may not be a comprehensive treatment of the subject. The details of her personal life are extremely thin and primarily sourced to a teen magazine (and one with an occasionally dubious history, at that). One song is listed as charting on the Swedish national charts, but no other chart performance is given. Now, admittedly, there's no Armenian charts recognized as reliable at WP:CHART, but I somehow suspect that her Eurovision performance means that the Sverigetopplistan isn't the only relevant material for that section. If that's not the case, then I'm curious if there's some special attention that was paid her in Swedish music media. And so forth.
 * There are also a lot of other referencing and reference formatting issues (the website for the magazine Bravo is styled in various reference entries in five different ways: Bravo, Bravo.am, Bravo.am, Bravo, and bravo.am; for the record, the first is correct), but this sort of problem is rather beside the point given the more significant issues.

Coord note
Based on the above comments I'll be archiving this shortly. I'd recommend that after making the suggested improvements to the article you initiate a Peer Review, pinging everyone who's previously commented, or try the FAC mentoring program -- or even do both, in that order. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:28, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 23:28, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.