Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jameson's mamba/archive1

Jameson's mamba

 * Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Right, have been cleaning up after an indefblocked user and decided to get this snek to a Stable Version. Less is known about it than other mambas. Have scoured the net for anything remotely of interest to lay readers as possible and feel it reads well prose-wise...so is in striking distance of FA-hood. Have at it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:18, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you guys think that the infobox image would be better with this or ? DarwinClean (talk) 01:31, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Those two show its colours really badly with that dark orange tint. FunkMonk (talk) 13:39, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The other problem is I don't know which subspecies it is - each image in article has been specified. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

A few suggestions
Jameson's mamba (Dendroaspis jamesoni) is a highly venomous snake native to equatorial Africa. This slender species of mamba (genus Dendroaspis) reaches around 2.2 m long and has dull green upperparts and cream underparts. Described by Scottish polymath Thomas Traill in 1843, ......"
 * I went with this Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:42, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Needs more alt text, especially in box
 * added box alt Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:44, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Additionally, if you liked these comments, please take a look and comment on my submission here Chidgk1 (talk) 13:12, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * (Additional comment)

Support Comments from Jim
I made a couple of minor tweaks to the lead, please check. Here are my toxic nitpicks. Jimfbleak - talk to me?  13:10, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * edits are fine Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * it has a slender build with dull green upperparts and cream underparts&mdash; replace "with", which doesn't work, by a comma.
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * contemporary of Traill's&mdash; contemporary of Traill or Traill's contemporary are grammatical
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The average total length (including tail) of an adult snake is approximately 1.5–2.2 m (4.9–7.2 ft). &mdash; lose "average" if you are giving a range
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * combat with each other for mates for breeding (and then breed)&mdash; clunky, and "with each" is redundant, perhaps 'fight each other for access to females and then breed''
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Smaller individuals of under 100 cm in length&mdash;convert
 * done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * three-finger toxin agents&mdash;I have no idea what that means
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * All looks good, changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me?  10:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:40, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Funk

 * I'll come back with a fuller review once I'm done with some other reviews. At first glance, the imagery seems a bit underwhelming, nothing on Commons that could spice it up? There is also a potentially interesting Flickr photo of a man handling a snake (perhaps for the venom section?): FunkMonk (talk) 17:02, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * added images that could be aligned with subspecies - both now included Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:40, 25 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Perhaps write common names after the binomials in the taxobox?
 * I'm not sure where you mean. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:40, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Facepalm... I meant the cladogram! FunkMonk (talk) 00:35, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:20, 26 August 2021 (UTC)


 * You only give nationalities for some of the people mentioned.
 * done. only one not added is described as "contemporary" implying Scottish Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "subsp. jamesoni, Korup National Park" Should this caption start with a capital letter? Same issue for other captions.
 * capped Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Since this is the type species of the genus, the etymology of the genus name could be given, as it may pertain specifically to this taxon?
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "the more venomous subspeces" Needing i in subspecies.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Snakes of Medical Importance" Why capitalised here when it isn't in the article body?
 * oversight - capped now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I wonder if anatomical direction terms like ventral would be better replaced with common terms?
 * changed one - plain English is used where possible. I think when terms are used with scales is hard to justify as scales have specific meaning Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:49, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "and adjacent Democratic Republic of Congo" The adjacent?
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:08, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * How long are the fangs? Any general description of the teeth?
 * added the only discussion of teeth I could find anywhere Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:05, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Could be mentioned if its generic name is related to its climbing habits?
 * even though this is obvious, I have (annoyingly) not seen a source link the meaning to the behaviour Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:51, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Anything on speed?
 * not that I've seen - mainly arboreal anyway. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:43, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Link mongoose?
 * link added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "In Nigeria males fight each other for mates for access to females" The last part seems repetitive?
 * removed duplicated bit I forgot to remove before in reword Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Democratic Republic of the Congo" appears to be a duplink, just with a "the" added. But isn't there some guideline not to link countries?
 * removed duplicated link. I guess the african countries are smaller and less well known to some readers so linking them is possibly okay in this case...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:05, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't the fact that its an elapid be mentioned in the taxonomy section rather than under description?
 * removed. Am in two minds whether to shoehorn it into taxonomy or just leave it to genus page.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Link dendrotoxins?
 * link added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:07, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "from a suspectedly venomous snake" Suspected?
 * tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:46, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * How does it differ from other green mambas?
 * as none of the species overlap - distinguishing between the 3 mamba species is not discussed in any source I have seen. Each has different scalation but no sources discuss differences (except between the two subspecies of this species. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:45, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Link arboreal in intro.
 * link added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:46, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Support - that's it from me, nice to see another snake here! FunkMonk (talk) 16:16, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Source review
Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed
 * "reaches around 2.2 meters (7.2 ft) in length" - the text has a range for length, and oddly gives a different conversion - is there a reason for the difference?
 * different templates. and laziness - fixed now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The symptoms of envenomation also differ between lead and text. Suggest checking that all facts in the lead are supported by the text, and resolving inconsistencies where they exist
 * aligned now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:31, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * FN2: the domain need not be included in the citation - the website name is sufficient
 * fixed now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * FN4: why is the complete page count included?
 * no idea. removed now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * FNs 1 and 5 are to the same site but differently formatted
 * aligned now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:31, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Be consistent in whether books include publication locations. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:34, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * locations removed now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:33, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Support Comments by Z1720
This is a non-expert prose review.
 * neophytes always welcome :) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:17, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


 * In the infobox, in the first image caption it says, "Subsp." I assume this means subspecies? I suggest using a template like " Subsp. " here.
 * was not aware of that template - nice find and added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:17, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I got the template from WP:TFAP Z1720 (talk) 01:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * In the infobox, the scientific classification is given but there's no citation, and this information is not in the article body. Should it have a citation, like is used for synonyms?
 * I've never seen citations anywhere else in the taxobox. Much of the information is beyond the scope of the article and is covered in the larger group articles higher up, such as Mamba (which should have more of a discussion on where mambas lie in the poisonous snake family Elapidae, which looks at the family's characteristics and place in the snakes etc. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:47, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * If it's not used in other articles, then consensus states that it shouldn't be used here. Z1720 (talk) 01:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Jameson's mamba has between 15 and 17 rows of dorsal scales at midbody, 210 to 236 (ssp jamesoni) or 202 to 227 ventral scales (ssp kaimosae), 94 to 122 (ssp jamesoni) or 94 to 113 (ssp kaimosae)" I suggest that the abbr template also be used for ssp here.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:19, 15 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Its eyes have three preocular, three postocular and one subocular scale." Why is postocular wikilinked, and not preocular? Shouldn't the first instance of the term be wikilinked?
 * I think I shuffled and forgot to switch bluelink. fixed now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "and species of mongoose" -> "and a species of mongoose" or "and the mongoose species"
 * species is plural here (which is why no article before it) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:58, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Symptoms of envenomation by this species" Suggest wikilinking envenomation, since the last use of this word was in the lede.
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "ISBN 978-1421427195." This ISBN is missing some hyphens, making it inconsistent with the other entries.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 16 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I checked the lede to ensure all of the information is mentioned in the body, and found no concerns.

Those are my thoughts. Please ping when you are ready for a second look. Z1720 (talk) 02:05, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * okay ready for more... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:06, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * My comments have been addressed. I support. Z1720 (talk) 01:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support from TRM

 * "has a slender build" why can't that just be "is slender"?
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "by Scottish polymath Thomas Traill in " -> "by Thomas Traill, a Scottish polymath, in " I think fewer people know what a polymath is than what Scottish means.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "nominate subspecies" what is that?
 * the sorta default - linked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Symptoms of envenomation" in humans presumably, unless the bird's speech is slurred somehow?
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "3 to 4 hours" three/four.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "a lower murine median lethal dose (LD50)." this is utterly meaningless to most readers. Is it necessary in the lead?
 * snake folks are big on LD50s....but a bit esoteric so removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "doctor, zoologist and scholar of medical jurisprudence" you called him a polymath in the lead but not here. Maybe you should call him a polymath here too and include the things he did.
 * actually on thinking about it, have removed the poncey-sounding polymath Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:58, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "at Edinburgh University where" at the University of Edinburgh.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I think you can link genus.
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "by Auguste Duméril" who was he?
 * described Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't you link subspecies in the lead?
 * linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "that it had a lower number of" -> "that it had fewer"
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * " It may grow as large as 2.64 m (8 ft 8 in).[11]" this is very precise. Do we really mean that there has been an example of one such mamba at such a length?
 * longest individuals of a species of snake seem to be a Big Deal among writers and readers Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * You linked Kenya but not Nigeria? Be consistent.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:20, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "containing a small eye and round pupil" just the one eye in this species?
 * aaaarrrrr, is the one-eyed snake pirate :) isn't so fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:20, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * supralabial is linked but sublabial is not?
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "the Democratic Republic of Congo" the Congo.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Same "Republic of the Congo".
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "eastwards to Togo, Nigeria," you link Nigeria here.... but mentioned it earlier.
 * linked at first instance Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Rwanda and the adjacent Democratic Republic of Congo." the Congo.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * And I would have a comma after Rwanda.
 * added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "primary and secondary rainforests" what's the difference?
 * now linked to Old-growth forest and secondary forest Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:25, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "elevations up to" of up to.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Found in primary ... found in areas..." not glittering prose.
 * tweaked. hope ok Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Jameson's mamba is a highly arboreal snake" then "almost exclusively arboreal snake" repetitive.
 * removed one Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "due to its arboreal nature ... Since this species is arboreal..." wow, you've said it enough.
 * removed one - other explains important statement Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "eating rodents in ... to eating them " repetitive, perhaps switch one for "consuming"?
 * switched to "accepting" in captivity Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Snake of Medical Importance" sounds notable, no article, redlink?
 * good point - have redlinked - I think a subsection of Venomous snake is most prudent. Will read up on it and think... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "within 3 to 4 hours" etc, see comments on this lot above.
 * fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "child perishing within" dying?
 * aawwww....okay, fixed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "intravenous murine median lethal dose (LD50) of 0.53 mg/kg" probably needs a footnote to explain what on earth this means.
 * good catch as I realise none of the target articles succinctly say what it is - footnote added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:20, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Member of the three" Members? And is that just a general comment, i.e. a footnote, rather than specific to this species?
 * They are all present, so change to "Other toxins of the three-finger family present..." Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * "Trivalent and monovalent" what do they mean?
 * effective against a single or three species. Unsuprisingly the target page (antivenom) is a bit of a mess, so maybe added another footnote. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:31, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Any information on the conservation status of this species? IUCN links?  Or even a comment to say it isn't in their red book?
 * annoyingly found nothing - hard to think what to say without veering into OR territory. My current thinking is just letting account in Distribution and habitat section speak for itself. Not ideal.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:47, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Very interesting article. One day I'll buy you a beer and recount the story of someone picking up a Fer-de-Lance in Costa Rica, thinking it was a grass snake.... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:17, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll trade you where a friend nearly trod on a sunbaking tiger snake (missing by <10cm) while I was next to him...anyway over to you Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:56, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi It's been a week, so I thought I'd give you a reminder. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:01, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Bloody hell, how quickly time flies. And how did this drop off my to do list?  Ok, I'll take a look tomorrow.  Apologies if I'm holding anything up..... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:12, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, had another look, and my concerns have been addressed, so that sounds like a support to me! If you fancy another "different" kind of article to review, pop on over to UEFA Euro 2012 Final!  Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:12, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Your thoroughness is appreciated - thx ++++ Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:56, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 01:14, 25 September 2021 (UTC)