Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jean Baptiste Point du Sable/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 05:32, 17 March 2018.

Jean Baptiste Point du Sable

 * Nominator(s): Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

This article is about Jean Baptiste Point du Sable, a trader living on the frontiers of empires in North America. He is regarded as the founder of Chicago. Although I have been involved in the article for years, now retired editor and former administrator did much admirable work to get the article to Good Article, and made the prior nomination, here. In North America, February is Black History Month, and in January, I thought it a good time to review this article, again. I looked at the last nomination and thought I might honor Jeremy's work by completing the FA he wanted for this article. kindly responded to a request I made for review at the Guild of Copy Editors. has generously provided some peer review. Thank you. - Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * As noted, I weighed in at the peer review. On re-reading a few more comments  about what is an exellent article.
 * "In 1779 he was living on the site of present-day Michigan City, Indiana, when he was arrested by the British military on suspicion of being an American sympathizer during the American Revolutionary War. " I would move the name of the war to the start of the sentence to better separate the two "Americans".
 * "In what would become the city of Chicago, he established an extensive and prosperous trading settlement. " I would reverse the two clauses.
 * "though it is likely they were married earlier in the 1770s in the Native American tradition." I would move "in the 1770s" to the end of the sentence and delete "earlier"
 * " were seeking to assert control in the former southern dependencies of French Canada and the Illinois Country. [14]" I might toss an "in" before "the Illinois Country".
 * "In August 1779 Point du Sable was arrested as a suspected spy during the American Revolutionary War at Trail Creek by British troops and imprisoned briefly at Fort Michilimackinac." I might move "during the American Revolutionary War" to just after 1779, and enclose it with commas.
 * "Drawing of the home of Jean Baptiste Point du Sable in Chicago as it appeared in the early 1800s" I might say "former home" as he no longer owned it.
 * "public assistance" from the government or the parish?
 * Thanks for asking -- in trying to pin down his last very elderly years, we run again into the vagueness and opaqueness of the record (including in the source used, there) - at some point, it seems his family are no longer in the picture, and he may have sought assistance either due to poverty or the ravages old age - I have changed to 'may have sought public or charitable' to give it a wider latitude, which would also be a fair summary of the source used. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:33, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * "fraudulent land claims" you use this phrase shortly before, so I might change to "such false claims" or similar.
 * "A plaque was erected by the city in 1913 at the corner of Kinzie and Pine Streets to commemorate the homestead.[67] " I assume you mean Kinzie but I'd clarify.
 * " Previously a small street named De Saible Street had been named after him.[44]" If it still is, I'd add a comma after "Previously".
 * That's it. A fine article on a neglected topic.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:03, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Wehwalt, I have incorporated all your, again very fine, suggestions in the article. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:33, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Support looks good to me.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:45, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Sources review

 * Ref 4: I'm a little uneasy about this source. It states that the website is based on a self-published book. The essay that forms the basis of ref 4 is said to be "currently undergoing revision based on new information and documents found since 1999" which raises issues of its stability. There is no information on the author of the essay, named as "John F Swenson" – is he an expert? The source is also the basis of refs 50, 58 and 59. Can you give any further information that might establish its quality and reliability?
 * Thanks. Yes, I once talked to Jeremy, who used Swenson, and then I looked into him, myself, awhile ago.  Swenson and his essay are cited on Du Sable in this University of Chicago history here.  He is cited as an authority by the New York Times on Du Sable here.  Swenson published in this scholarly journal on Chicago history here.  The book that is the basis for the website is world cat held by several libraries, including university and scholarly instititions. Alanscottwalker (talk) 01:54, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Ref 15: Paywall, so you should add the template.
 * Ref 51: IBSN missing: it is 978-0-89792-140-4. For consistency, the existing 10-digit ISBNs can be converted to 13-digit form via
 * Ref 60: "Liette" is mis-spelt
 * Ref 68: page ref missing
 * Ref 73: Typo "retrieved" → "Retrieved"
 * Oddly enough the template generates that and won't let me change it, or I just don't know how. Alanscottwalker (talk) 02:52, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Ref 76: Give the site publisher (Smithsonian National Postal Museum) rather than the web address. Also, keep to the established retrieval date format
 * Ref 77: Retrieval date format.

Otherwise, the sources appear to be in good order and of the requisite quality and reliability. Brianboulton (talk) 17:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Brian, I have now made your ref corrections or responded as noted above. Thank you. Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:01, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Image review
All images are used appropriately and are appropriately licensed.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:03, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Support Comments from Tim riley
I shall be supporting the promotion of this excellent article, but first a couple of quibbles about WP:OVERLINK: we have the Chicago River linked twice in the lead and Fort Michilimackina linked twice in the main text. Other than that, only two more comments. First, there is a statement in the lead that does not quite tally with the equivalent statement in the main text: "he was arrested by the British military on suspicion of being an American sympathizer" and "Point du Sable was arrested as a suspected spy": not quite the same thing. And secondly, in footnote 2 I am uneasy about "Quaif notes", the verb seeming to me to imply endorsement of his statement, whereas something like "comments" or "remarks" would be more neutral. If you disagree with me on the last point I shall not press the point.  Tim riley  talk    19:53, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Tim, very helpful. I have made all the corrections/clarifications, you have requested. Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:25, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Happy to Support the promotion of this article, which seems to me to meet all the FA criteria.  Tim riley  talk    16:40, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Support by Coemgenus
There is little here to quibble about. This is a well-written article about an historical figure about whom little is known--a difficult task. I made some minor tweaks to hyphens and dashes, but otherwise this article looks to me to be qualified for the bronze star. Nice work. --Coemgenus (talk) 23:26, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Coord note
FTR, although there hasn't been a huge amount of commentary here, the reviews have all been positive and each of the participants is among FAC's most experienced; as there haven't been any issues raised in almost a month I see no reason not to promote -- tks all. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:31, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 05:32, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.