Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John Alden/archive1

John Alden

 * Nominator(s): Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 19:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

This article is about John Alden, a signer of the Mayflower Compact and an English colonist who played a key role in governance during the early years of Plymouth Colony. He also featured prominently in American popular culture of the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries thanks to Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's fictionalized "Courtship of Myles Standish" in which Alden was a main character. Finally, of all the Mayflower passengers, John and Priscilla Alden have the most descendants, estimated at about 1 million (I am NOT a descendant, for what it's worth). I did a major overhaul of this page during the winter and submitted it for a peer review but got no bites. Nonetheless, I think it is in good shape and after incorporating feedback here, could be a worthy featured article. In this, the 400th anniversary year of the founding of Plymouth Colony, it might be appropriate to feature one or two articles on that topic. Thanks for your consideration. Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 19:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Image review
 * Captions need editing for grammar
 * Don't use fixed px size
 * File:Priscilla_and_John_Alden,_by_Geo._H._Boughton_(NYPL_b12647398-79379).tiff: source link gives a date range of 1898-1931; how do we know it was published before 1925? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've removed the fixed px sizes, uploaded a different version of that image from the LOC definitively dated 1884, and edited the captions. If anything is still off about the captions, just let me know. Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 16:40, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Generally if you're using a century in adjective form it should be hyphenated - ie. "in the 18th century" would be correct, but "18th-century etching" takes a hyphen. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:17, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Got it. All set. Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 12:25, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Truflip99
Reserving for comments. Hoping you could provide comments to MAX Red Line in return. --truflip99 (talk) 14:44, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to. Looking at the open FAC nominations, I'm thinking you meant MAX Yellow Line? ...And thank you! Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 20:06, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Woops that's the one! --truflip99 (talk) 04:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


 * casting his lot with the Pilgrims -- what does this mean?
 * Rephrased


 * English origins of John Alden -- link to English people
 * Done


 * hypothesized origins "tempting," -- comma outside quotes per MOS:LQ
 * Done


 * was hired for a cooper, at South-Hampton -- link Cooper (profession) and Southampton
 * Done


 * to work temporarily when the Mayflower arrived. -- link Mayflower again in this first instance
 * Done


 * was proposed by B. Carlyon-Hughes -- historian or genealogist?
 * Both, noted as such


 * Harwich is an ancient North Sea port -- link North Sea
 * Done


 * for Alden's joining the crew -- not "Alden joining the crew" or "Alden's joining of the crew"?
 * Picked the former suggestion


 * "remembered him as tall, blond, and very powerful in physique." -- MOS:LQ
 * Done


 * "a fair presumption," -- MOS:LQ
 * Done


 * "may have been the son of George Alden the fletcher, who disappeared – probably dying in that year – leaving John, an orphan, free to take employment overseas. Jane, the widow, may have been his mother and Richard and Avys his grandparents." -- MOS:LQ
 * Done...I think. Last period outside the quotes?


 * This is, however, pure conjecture and in no way proven. -- if this is part of the previous ref [5], then place this before it. Otherwise, it looks like your own conclusion, ergo WP:OR.
 * Struck the sentence.


 * The Mayflower Descendant -- add a brief description of what this is
 * Done


 * "son and heir of John Alden of Swanscomb, Kent," -- MOS:LQ
 * Done


 * There is no evidence that John Alden of the Mayflower was connected to this family -- Mayflower not italicized?
 * Done

More later. --truflip99 (talk) 04:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you!Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 21:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Probably should still link the first instance of Southampton
 * Done


 * Make sure you give the painting its proper title
 * Done


 * due to Alden's useful skills, the colonists encouraged him to remain with them in America during the voyage. -- any skills in particular?
 * Added barrel-maker and carpenter


 * The 100-foot ship had 102 passengers and a crew of about 20 to 30 in extremely cramped conditions. -- "aboard in extremely cramped conditions" might sound better?
 * Done


 * A lack of proper rations and unsanitary conditions for months caused illnesses -- illnesses in particular?
 * Primary sources give no clues. There are many theories but they're just that.


 * including the majority of women and children. -- not "particularly to"?
 * Changed


 * On the way, there were two deaths, a crew member and a passenger, but the worst was yet to come. -- a little confusing; on the way to where?
 * Specified North America


 * which was then part of the Colony of Virginia. -- comma before
 * Done


 * which is an indication that he had already made the decision to remain with the settlers. -- comma before
 * Done


 * and a large hill overlooking the harbor -- establish that they would later name this Burial Hill
 * Done


 * suitable for a fort -- link Fortification
 * Done


 * During their first winter in Plymouth, most of the settlers fell ill and half died of disease. Priscilla Mullins (John Alden's future wife) lost her entire family during the first winter -- slightly redundant
 * Deleted second "during the first winter"


 * her father William Mullins, her mother Alice Mullins, and her brother Joseph Mullins. -- last names also a little redundant
 * Deleted


 * A recreation of this house stands today at Plimoth Plantation, a living history museum which replicates the original Pilgrim settlement. -- ref?
 * Added


 * Photo cap: A view of the recreated Plimoth Plantation which includes a replica of John Alden's house seen second from the left -- comma before which
 * Done


 * The fictionalized story tells of a love triangle -- link Love triangle
 * Added


 * contributing to the establishment of a national Thanksgiving holiday five years later. -- I think it's better to say the exact year here
 * Done


 * "the most celebrated Pilgrim couple in history." -- MOS:LQ
 * Done


 * others dismiss it as mere fancy. -- what does this mean?
 * Rephrased


 * Historian John Goodwin pointed out several anachronisms and inconsistencies -- link Anachronism
 * Done


 * there was not "reason for believing any part of it." -- "not a reason" or "no reason"; also MOS:LQ
 * Fixed

More again in a bit. --truflip99 (talk) 15:29, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This left the colonists in a quandary -- is quandary a common word?
 * Rephrased


 * the debt in exchange for a monopoly on the fur trade from the colony -- link fur trade
 * Done


 * Eight of the Plymouth colonists, including John Alden, agreed to collectively assume, or undertake, the debt in exchange for a monopoly on the fur trade from the colony. -- who granted this exchange and how?
 * The other colonists. I added some explanation.


 * known as the "Undertakers." -- MOS:LQ and ref needed
 * Done


 * The fact that Alden was among them is indicative of his growing stature in the colony. -- does this have a ref or is it your own analysis?
 * Added ref on this point re: Alden.


 * He also served as Deputy Governor on two occasions in the absence of the Governor in 1665 and 1677. He was elected Treasurer of the colony annually from 1656 to 1658. He served on the colony's Council of War, an important committee to decide on matters pertaining to the defense of the colony, in 1642, 1643, 1646, 1653, 1658 and 1667. He also served on a number of important committees including the Committee to Revise Laws, the Committee on the Kennebec Trade, and a number of additional minor posts. -- add some variety
 * Done


 * interloped in the trade prevoking -- provoking*?
 * Oops. Done.


 * When the Plymouth traders put in at Boston authorities there decided to imprison John Alden who was -- need a comma here where appropriate, also what does "put in" mean?
 * Done and rephrased.


 * intervention of Bradford that Alden was eventually released. -- Bradford linked twice.
 * Done


 * upland that had been partially cleared by Native Americans -- link hill?
 * I don't use the word hill there, I'm not sure a wikilink is appropriate here.


 * salt marsh (a good source of hay) -- "a salt marsh" or "salt marshes"? also link Salt marsh
 * Done


 * a boulder, plaque and other interpretive signage. -- comma before and
 * Done


 * The site was professionally excavated by Roland Wells Robbins in 1960, unearthing many artifacts including a halberd blade which is now exhibited at Pilgrim Hall Museum in Plymouth. The site is now part of the Duxbury school campus and is located next to a playing field. The footprint of the house is evident as a depression in the ground and is marked by a boulder, plaque and other interpretive signage. -- ref?
 * Added


 * were reluctant to break apart the "mother" church congregation in Plymouth but reluctantly gave permission. -- redundant
 * Fixed


 * A second Alden House was long believed -- is* long believed?
 * Past tense is correct here. The notion has been disproved, so it is no longer believed.


 * following local tradition -- the placement of this is a little awkward, also what is the local tradition?
 * Re-wrote to better explain how historians wrote about this for a long time


 * The Alden's first Duxbury home site and the Alden House Historic Site were together granted National Historic Landmark status in 2008. -- ref needed
 * Done


 * Family section would be better as prose
 * Agreed. This was a bit of struggle. I did my best here to convert to prose, adding some facts to create just a bit more narrative, citing them, and adding some new references. But in most cases very little is known about the children, so parts still look a little like a list.


 * John Alden was the last survivor of the signers of the Mayflower Compact. He died in Duxbury on September 12, 1687. Both he and his wife Priscilla were buried in the Myles Standish Burial Ground in Duxbury. The precise location of their graves is not known as markers either were not placed or have crumbled away. In 1930, the Alden Kindred of America placed commemorative slate stones at the estimated location of their graves near the headstone of their son, Capt. Jonathan Alden. -- ref needed for all of these statements
 * Done


 * Several artifacts attributed to John Alden are exhibited at major museums. These include the halberd blade discovered in the 1960 archaeological dig at the Alden first house site in Duxbury, the Alden family bible, and a mortar and pestle attributed to John and Priscilla Alden, all of which are displayed at Pilgrim Hall Museum. -- ref needed
 * Done

I believe that is it for prose. --truflip99 (talk) 16:40, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Refs - pass

 * Change all of the http to https
 * Done


 * As web content can change on a whim, best to use access-date parameter (IMHO)
 * Added


 * -- should be publisher not last
 * Done


 * American Ancestors also should not be under the last parameter; probably use via=americanancestors.org (though not certain)
 * That works for me. Done.


 * -- should be publisher
 * Done


 * -- omit
 * Done

--truflip99 (talk) 17:59, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 14:06, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, missed a few more. --truflip99 (talk) 15:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I would say doing the same for last=Plymouth Ancestors as you have for American Ancestors
 * and last=Library of Congress
 * and last=NRA Museums
 * Done Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 18:10, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Refs look good too. --truflip99 (talk) 19:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Coord note
Sorry but with only one comprehensive review after more than a month it looks like consensus to promote is a long way off so I'm going to archive this. The list is big right now so this might get more traction in a couple of weeks as we work to pare things down. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 23:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)