Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kalki Koechlin/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 06:49, 16 February 2016.

Kalki Koechlin

 * Nominator(s): Numerounovedant (talk) 08:08, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Kalki Koechlin is an Indian actress of French descent, working in Bollywood films. She is a theatre actress as well and has written, directed and acted in numerous plays. She although has been involved in commercially successful Bollywood films, is better known for her unconventional roles in films like Margarita with a Straw and  That Girl in Yellow Boots, among others.

I nominated this article for GA status after having done extensive work on it and now am looking to further improve it and bring it to FA status.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 8:07, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Suggest withdrawal – Not meaning to discourage you, but the article has hardly had any major improvement since its GA promotion. The GA-FA transition needs a fair amount of work. WP:FAC isn't a substitute for WP:PR. &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 08:22, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't really think that every good article needs a fair amount of work before it is brought to FAC. Sometimes a GA-nominated article is ready for FAC. I reviewed it for GA and I can say that it covers important aspects of her life and career, comprehensive enough to be nominated for FAC. I can't comment on its prose or references though. --  Frankie talk 12:06, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Where have I implied that? I based my opinion solely based on this article. IMO, it isn't close to the FA criteria. YMMV &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 12:20, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I am not jumping to any conclusion whether or not it satisfies the FAC criteria but if you think it doesn't, I think you should elaborate. --  Frankie talk 15:04, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Oppose promotion, suggest a peer review. I've only reviewed two sections and already there are plenty of problems. Here's an example of what I've found: I concur with here that FAC was perhaps a little premature.  Cassianto Talk   17:08, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * "Koechlin took the project and to pursue it further she shifted to Mumbai" -- is not the kind of prose I'd be expecting to see on a featured article.
 * "Koechlin, after moving to Mumbai, auditioned for Anurag Kashyap's Dev.D (2009)..." -- The commas here don't help with the flow: "After moving to Mumbai, Koechlin auditioned for Anurag Kashyap's Dev.D (2009)..." would be more like it.
 * "Koechlin had four releases in 2011, the first one was Bejoy Nambiar's crime-thriller Shaitan..." -- "was" does not work halfway through a sentence as a past tense.
 * "It was a modern take on Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyay's novel Devdas, and Koechlin played..." --pronoun needed.
 * "..Kalki who is an intriguing actor but perhaps not experienced enough to pull off the complexity of her character" -- check ellipsis.
 * "Koechlin shared screen with..." Badly written, not to motion missing a word.
 * " was nominated for the Best Actress Award at the Star Screen Awards" -- watch for repetitive words.
 * "It was followed by Zoya Akhtar's ensemble..." New para, new introducer
 * "Koechlin received a Filmfare nomination for Best Supporting Actress for her role" -- "for her role" is redundant here.
 * "In 2012, she reunited with Abhay Deol..." -- new para, new noun.
 * "Koechlin portrayed a political activist student in it" -- "in it" is not FA quality and is redundant anyway.

Oppose after a quick scan
 * The infobox says she was born in Ooty, while the lead says Pondicherry.
 * Done  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * 'Her most recent play Colour Blind (2014), a take on the life of Indian poet Rabindranath Tagore which she co-wrote, screened at the Sir Mutha Venkata Subba Rao Hall in August 2014.' - Don't you think this is too much for the lead?
 * Done Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * What is 'play and screenwriter'? You mean Playwright and screenwriter (films)?
 * Done Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * 'Koechlin won the Best Actress at Tallinn Black Nights Film Festival' - A crucial word is missing here.
 * Done  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Parts of the second para of 'Early life' section are not covered in the source - the bit about the Mysore-based school for instance.
 * Added References  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Precision is needed for most of the facts in the section. Except for her date of birth, this isn't there for any claim.
 * Added References  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * 'She performed in various plays like David Hare's The Blue Room, Marivaux's The Dispute and a devised play The Rise of the Wild Hunt in her two-year stint with the theatre group' - I'm not sure if she was a part of these plays - one dates back to 1998, while the other goes back to the 18th century. More importantly, none of these are covered in the source material.
 * Added source and More importantly either you didn't read the whole thing or just missed the "two-year stint" part and the fact that the only original play was refereed to as "devised" implying that the other two were not conceived at the time.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * 'Apart from her acting career Koechlin has written, produced and acted in many stage plays in India' - So the plays are not a part of her acting career?
 * Fixed But in fairness to mention the production and the writing part, it does make sense.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Her nationality is unsourced.
 * This one is kind of silly and ridiculous because the whole article and references in it talk about her being born, being raised, have lived, worked in India and you still need a reference for it? If you still think its important, have a look at GA/FA articles Kajol, Priyanka Chopra, Madhuri Dixit, Kareena Kapoor, Deepika Padukone (who wasn't even born in India), none of them cite the nationality.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * If you're too smart why mention it in the infobox? &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 19:26, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * As I said, I mentioned it because all the other articles I referred to also did!  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 7:47, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Why the list of plays are not mentioned in the table? Ditto with awards.
 * Correct me if I am wrong, the awards are in table in the Awards section.
 * The creation of a separate table would just be repetition of information and is totally unnecessary, See : WP:MoS/Tables (It is clear from the Lead itself Para 2-Line 1)  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm concerned about the reliability of these sources: Mail Today, Scroll.in, ScoopWhoop, India TV.


 * I think they are pretty much decent sources for a GA. But I cannot comment on if they are okay for a FA-level article.
 * The reference from Mail Today has a substitute, Scrool.in qualifies as WP:IS and if it does not satisfies the criteria it too has substitues, India TV is a leading Hindi News Channel, Scoopwhopp has been an active News Portal as well and meets the WP:IRS criteria.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * All these are just from the lead and 'Early life' section. These issues were overlooked by the GA reviewer. I'm not a native speaker, and I'm not going to comment on the prose aspect. But there are so many issues with it - I leave it to others. &mdash; Vensatry (Talk) 5:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have replied to some of the comments by Vensatry. I am not a major contributor or the nominator of the article. From what I see from this message, I think the nominator mistook FAC as peer review? --  Frankie talk 17:24, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * No, I just stated the possibility of what Vensatry stated being true because there was no explanation!  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 6:19, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Alright! Good luck and I wish to see an FA in form of Ms. Koechlin, who I think is truly a rare and underrated actress in Bollywood. --  Frankie talk 18:36, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Comment: GA is a notoriously unreliable indicator of sn article's quality, depending as it does on one editor's judgement. I have seen some pretty substandard stuff awarded the GA mark. I'm not saying that happened here, and the article has undergone a recent peer review, so I think the nominator has tried to prepare the article for this stage. But it doesn't seem as though the prose has ever been checked thoroughly by an experienced English prose writer. That needs to happen; at the moment the article is well short of the required FA prose standard, whatever its other qualitiies. If this can be done within the normal FAC timescale I see no need for withdrawal. The issue of source reliability should perhaps await a specfic sources review. Brianboulton (talk) 18:00, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Working on it.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 6:05, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Closing comment -- Based on the above I'm going to archive the nom so improvements can be made away from the pressure of FAC. Please don't be discouraged but take the comments on board -- you can re-nominate once a minimum of two weeks has passed, per FAC instructions. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:48, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 06:49, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.