Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kalki Koechlin/archive2


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 15:25, 8 April 2016.

Kalki Koechlin

 * Nominator(s):Numerounovedant (talk) 13:10, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Kalki Koechlin is an Indian actress of French descent, working in Bollywood films. She is a theatre actress as well and has written, directed and acted in numerous plays. She although has been involved in commercially successful Bollywood films, is better known for her unconventional roles in films like Margarita with a Straw and  That Girl in Yellow Boots, among others.

I nominated this article for GA status after having done extensive work on it and now am looking to further improve it and bring it to FA status.  Numerounovedant  ( Talk ) 13:10, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Kailash

 * Online sources like NDTV and CNN-IBN should not be italicised, while print ones like The Hollywood Reporter should be.
 * Fixed


 * Koimoi and Daily Mail look like questionable sources.
 * Koimoi and Daily Mail have been used in almost every WP:FA articles relating Indian cinema, like Priyanka Chopra, Vidya Balan, Rani Mukherjee among others. They are reliable sources.
 * I too wish they are, but WP:Potentially unreliable sources reads, "In general, tabloid-journalist newspapers, such as The Sun, Daily Mirror, Daily Mail, equivalent television shows, or sites like The Register, should not be used." Kailash29792 (talk) 11:06, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Looking for alternatives.  Numerounovedant   Talk  12:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed Numerounovedant   Talk  12:38, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The refs can be archived to avoid link rotting
 * "Awards and nominations" needs great formatting such as rowspan and should not have repititive links. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:33, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Working on it, I followed the lead of Sonam Kapoor's aticle, now an FA, the table was made based on from this article. But, as you suggested will look to improve it.
 * Does the table look better structured now? Numerounovedant   Talk  12:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Much better. But I think I seee a slight screwup with the alignment of the years. Kailash29792 (talk) 12:27, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * If you are referring to the Tallinn Film Festival Award it was indeed awarded in 2014 as the film premiered there in 2014.  Numerounovedant   Talk  12:39, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Have made most of the amends that were suggested! Thank you for your help. Let me know of what you think of the article, and any further suggestions!  Numerounovedant   Talk  16:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't see anymore major issues; minor prose and grammatical issues may remain, but I think I can solve them. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:25, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank You! Numerounovedant   Talk  10:52, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey Kailash, I am not sure if you need me do work on any specific areas in the article, but I'll be happy to respond to any more comments that you have.  Numerounovedant   Talk  12:20, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Dr. Blofeld
Will look at this tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:46, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Looking forward to your comments! Numerounovedant   Talk  05:39, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I will try to read it later today.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:34, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay.


 * Lede
 * "She is known for playing roles that defy stereotypical portrayal of women in Indian cinema, " -seems every Indian actress is known for this now..
 * ". She then starred in two of top-grossing Bollywood films—the comedy-dramas Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara (2011) and Yeh Jawaani Hai Deewani (2013)—both roles earned her nominations at Filmfare. " awkward, try ."She then starred in the comedy-dramas Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara (2011) and Yeh Jawaani Hai Deewani (2013), top-grossing Bollywood productions which both earned her nominations at Filmfare."
 * Where is the Sir Mutha Venkata Subba Rao Hall ?
 * film-maker -remove hyphen
 * Fixed all.


 * Early life
 * " Pondicherry" -what state?
 * It is a Union territory.


 * Link Hebron School, Ooty as Hebron School in Ooty
 * " She lived with her elder brother in Bangalore. Unable to find work in the city, Koechlin decided to move to Mumbai. She then worked with Atul Kumar and Ajay Krishnan who were looking for actors for a theatre festival called Contacting the World, held in Liverpool. She " -rep of "she"
 * "Koechlin, after moving to Mumbai, auditioned " ="After moving to Mumbai, Koechlin auditioned"
 * Fixed all.


 * Debut
 * "In the film, Koechlin played the role of Leni, a young girl who turns who turns to prostitution after an MMS scandal; the character was based on Chandramukhi." you need to state who Chandramukhi is to non Indian audiences. Elaborate on what she is and split into another sentence and remove the semicolon.
 * "do not look the role" -what sort of English is that?
 * "Kashyap had initially rejected her, stating that she was "not an Indian" and "do not look the role". However, the production house auditioned her and sent Kashyap the audition tape for his feedback. After watching the tape, he called Koechlin and offered her the part." -superfluous waffle, why not just say "Kashyap had initially rejected her on the grounds that she was not Indian and didn't meet his visualization of the character, but changed his mind and offer her the role after seeing her audition tape".
 * "The following year, she acted in the black comedy, The Film Emotional Atyachar.[18]" -and? If you're going to mention it at least elaborate a bit, otherwise there's no point in mentioning it
 * The 2011 content is unnecessarily drawn out and repetitive in places. It should all go in one paragraph and reworded to avoid "release in 2011" etc
 * Fixed all.


 * 2013-present and stage
 * "Koechlin appeared in Y-Films's mini web-series Man's world. " -when?
 * "Koechlin has opened her own theater company, 'Little Productions' and has plans to turn to a play director too." -when and what does "turn to a play director" mean, you mean she "has aspirations to became a stage director"?
 * Fixed all.


 * Personal life
 * "a good space" -did she say that or a "good place"?
 * I question the encycloipedic value of "Right now, I am in a good space. Last year was a little bit more of a struggle, as I didn't know where I was going. I wasn't sure where my relationship with Anurag was going. All of it was unclear. Now, we are pretty clear that we are not going to be together. We have already applied for divorce and will get it soon." and "[But] everyone has doubts, we're all human. Even as an actor, you have days when you haven't slept enough, you don't feel like you're good enough or pretty enough... But ultimately, it's all about attitude. You must live with a little abandon and not be self-conscious. You ought to stop staring at yourself in the mirror, and just smile a little!" -perhaps the latter quote reflects on her mentality and approach so fair enough but I would remove the earlier one and simply say filed for divorce.
 * "Koechlin participated in the Mumbai Marathon, a charitable event that aimed to spread awareness on education," -when?
 * Fixed all


 * Media
 * "Koechlin is described as a style icon by the Indian media and has been dubbed as the "queen of experimental fashion".[101][102][103][104] Raedita Tandan of Filmfare described " -rep of described
 * "Koechlin is also associated with Fashion brands including Grey Goose's Style du jour and Vogue among others.[102]

Koechlin is a celebrity endorser and has been associated with several brands and services, " this needs a restructuring as it seems like you're repeating what you just said at the end of the preceding paragraph. I would move the first into the last paragraph and say:

"Koechlin is a celebrity endorser and has been associated with several brands and services. She endorses Grey Goose's Style du jour, Vogue, Coca-Cola, Olay, Micromax, Titan and AOC International, and numerous others."
 * Fixed

Overall there's nothing disastrously wrong with the prose or article, but like many similar articles brough here the prose is rather bland and a tad monotonous to read with the usual played xx, badly at box office, critic praised format" and not quite as a sharp as it could be at times. In places it would be good to read more about her preperations for roles and background to productions to vary it a bit and give it more life. It's difficult to give it my support. I would like to see the article made more interesting if possible and varied a bit. ♦ Dr. Blofeld  14:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Working on it. Thank you for all your comments!  Numerounovedant   Talk  21:35, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help! I am going to restructure parts of the article and add relevant information to make it more interesting, in a day or two.  Numerounovedant   Talk  10:01, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * As per Dr. Blofeld's suggestions I have expanded the Career section, with details of her pre and post film activities. I have covered all her major roles and would be working on some more minor additions and a thematic arrangement of "Media Image" section, as done in Preity Zinta's article. The reviewers may take a look at the recent additions. Thank You!  Numerounovedant   Talk  20:55, 3 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support this nomination. Good luck! Yashthepunisher (talk) 17:01, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for all your suggestions! Numerounovedant   Talk  17:24, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Jaguar

 * "The five-minute video was released on YouTube and feature a poem" - featured?
 * Featured Koechlin reciting a poem?


 * "The video met with rave reviews from critics" - not sure if "rave" sounds informal to use here. I gather that it was positive, so maybe use something like that? Feel free to ignore
 * I just thought that "positive" doesn't quite cut it!


 * "The film is scheduled for it's box-office release on 29 April 2016" - its
 * Done


 * "an independent film about two grieving people who are waiting in the hospital" - in a hospital
 * Done


 * "As of March 2016, Koechlin has three upcoming projects, apart from Waiting which will be released in Indian cinemas in April" - how about As of March 2016, Koechlin has three upcoming projects, excluding from Waiting which will be released in Indian cinemas in April
 * Not sure if what is right "excluding from" or just "excluding".


 * "Razdan on casting Koechlin for the role said that" - bit choppy. How about On casting Koechlin for the role, Razadan said that
 * Done


 * " and continued "There's nothing like performing for a live audience. Ego-wise also, because you get this goose-bumps-and-applause thing.[75] It doesn't matter" - citation needs to be moved outside the quotes
 * Done


 * "On 13 November 2013 both Koechlin and Kashyap issued a joint statement saying they were separating" - I think "stating" sounds appropriate here
 * Done


 * "On 19 May 2015 morning Kashyap and Koechlin arrived" - On the morning of 19 May 2015 Kashyap and Koechlin arrived
 * Done


 * "participated in the P & G Shiksha campaign for educating kids living in rural parts of India" - informal, try "children"
 * Done


 * "Her monologue which talked about the daily wars women have to wage against patriarchy, had bits from her personal diary as well" - sounds a bit unencyclopedic, at first I thought this was part of a quote. Instead of "had bits", try something like had extracts and "which was talked" to which discussed the daily wars
 * Done


 * "Apart from that, Koechlin has walked the ramp at numerous occasions" - I can assume that some readers won't know what this means, does this mean she was part of a catwalk?
 * Yes technically but I don't want to give the impression of it being just business because most of the events were charitable, so what do you suggest?

I spotted some minor prose errors and sentences that would be better off rephrased, but other than that the article is looking pretty solid! JAG UAR   20:35, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for all your comments. Some really good catches in the prose! I have responded to all of your concerns. Thank you again!  Numerounovedant   Talk  04:16, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * After going through the article again, I will now support this FAC. Well done on all the good work put into this! And once again I must apologise for my two week delay. It's never like me to delay so long but I've been busy in real life this week and my internet keeps dropping out. I'm confident this should pass. JAG  UAR   22:39, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no need for saying that, I am glad you could take out time to for the review. All your suggestions are really appreciated. Thank you again!  Numerounovedant   Talk  03:40, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Comments from Ssven2
Support — Haven't found anything wrong with the prose, but you could try to replace the Oneindia source with a more credible one. Other than that, nice work on the article, Numerounovedant. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me 11:34, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you Ssven2! I'll look for a replacement for the source!  Numerounovedant   Talk  11:42, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I removed the reference because there is nothing that the other two references (HT and Koimoi) do not cover.  Numerounovedant   Talk  12:55, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * So, I take it as a support?  Numerounovedant   Talk  13:20, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. —  Ssven2  Speak 2 me 02:01, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you!  Numerounovedant   Talk  03:30, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Spot-check and image review
Some comments are not related to sourcing or images.
 * Ref 2 -- I am not sure what is the purpose of this source; it neither supports that she is a screenwriter (just a specific work of hers) nor does it say that she's worked in "many stage plays".
 * Moved onto the prose at appropriate place.


 * Consider rephrasing the following text: "After finishing her studies Koechlin moved back to India, and lived with her elder brother in Bengaluru." Source 6's text: "after finishing her studies Koechlin moved back to India, and started living with her elder brother in Bengaluru."
 * I am having trouble here, do you want me to remove some part because otherwise it's just shuffling phrases?
 * Look at the similarity between the

article's text and source's text.
 * Done  Numerounovedant   Talk  16:11, 30 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Fine with ref 6.1 and 6.2.
 * Ref 4 is not properly formatted.
 * I removed the reference because it had no exclusive piece of information.


 * Ref 82 -- text: "you don't feel like you're good enough or pretty enough. But ultimately" → "you don't feel like you're good enough or pretty enough ... But ultimately".
 * Done


 * The Filmography section is inconsistent with citations -- some factual assertions have in-line citations to back them up -- but others do not.
 * I cite just the one guest appearance because it is absent in the text, and incase of Love Affair, there's no link to cross-check so I added the footnote.


 * Some inconsistencies are found throughout the references -- you usually link a publisher/work the first time it occurs, otherwise not e.g. The Hindu in ref 73 (just an example which means there are more of them).
 * I did not understand this point.

FrB.TG (talk) 17:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Images are all fine. Just for the sake of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, consider adding WP:ALT for images though it is not something I strongly recommend. ツ
 * Working on it. Numerounovedant   Talk  03:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Added


 * Thank you for taking up the spot-check! Have made all the changes or left comments!  Numerounovedant   Talk  09:03, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Her marriage and divorce need to be mentioned in the lead.
 * Done  Numerounovedant   Talk  16:11, 30 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Perhaps could comment on its prose if he's got time? ツ FrB.TG (talk) 16:06, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Oppose from Krimuk90
I'm sorry to say that the prose is nowhere close to meeting the FA requirements. Some instances of the poor prose (mind you, this is only in "Debut and further roles (2009–12)" sub-section; the rest of the article has similar such errors):
 * "Kashyap had initially rejected her on the grounds that she was not Indian and didn't meet his visualization of the character, but changed his mind and offer her the role after seeing her audition tape." Several grammatical errors.
 * "Komal Nahta of Koimoi thought of Koechlin's performance in the film as "average"" Grammar, again.
 * "Koechlin shared screen with Rajeev Khandelwal, Gulshan Devaiya.." What is shared screen? Should be shared screen space.
 * "Koechlin was type-cased into 'dark' roles like prostitutes, troubled teenagers, and misfits." What is type-cased?
 * "Koechlin made her debut as a screenwriter with Anurag Kashyap's thriller That Girl in Yellow Boots, which she co-wrote and starred in". If she made her screenwriting debut with the film, isn't it obvious that she co-wrote it?
 * "Sukanya Verma of Rediff Gabe the film three stars" What is Gabe?
 * "She described her character in the film as "cartoony innocent" and "wide-eyed head-in-the-cloud type"". No idea what either of the quotes mean.
 * "Box Office India criticised the production, but thought that Koechlin brought credibility to role and did it "justice"." None of the cited sources are Box Office India.
 * "Vassilis Vassilikos's novel Z (1967)," MoS error.
 * "..a role for which she was simultaneously reading the script, while preparing for her marriage". What does that mean? Krimuk | 90  ( talk ) 10:17, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't want to sit and nitpick on such errors for the rest of the article. I strongly suggest a thorough copy-edit from a native English speaker before this is brought back here. Cheers! -- Krimuk | 90 ( talk ) 10:19, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments! I am currently working on the article for prose improvements and adding additional information and that is mainly the reason of why you found these errors. Most of them were suggestions from other reviewers, the other were recent additions that I made and did not have time to cross-check. None the less all your concerns are justifiable, but I don't think a couple of typos and slight lack of brevity should lead to a strong opposition. I am currently working on the prose as I mentioned here earlier, and after I am done (in probably a day or two) I would be happy to address the problems then. Rest all your comments here have been taken care of. I won't push you to take another look, but I think your concerns could all be addressed and resolved rather easily as done here.  Numerounovedant   Talk  11:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I missed most of those Krimuk picked up on, largely because I was busy at the time, but some of those are certainly howlers for FA.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:03, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * No I am afraid none of them were a part of the article at the time you reviewed it. I am currently working on adding additional information, as per your suggestions. I have fixed most parts of the career section now, you may take a look.  Numerounovedant   Talk  12:08, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I am almost done with editing the career section which would give you a better idea of the article's status now. Have a look if you can but I am pretty sure all the observations made by Krimuk90 were in the middle of my copy-edit spree. None of the problems were there when Dr. Blofeld reviewed the article, so I did not understand his concerns. Thank you for your comments though!  Numerounovedant   Talk  08:04, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

That's not quite true. Some other issues that I see now are (again, this is not exhaustive) : To conclude, I still stand by the fact that the article needs a thorough copy-edit before it is brought here. I can do it myself at a later time, but in its current state the article does not meet the FA-criteria. Krimuk | 90 ( talk ) 02:12, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * "ranked it at second in his list of the best movies of 2009". Grammar.
 * "Consequently when she was offered a comic role, she was really keen on doing it, because it was different to her previous work." Very colloquial writing style.
 * Boxofficeindia.co.in is not a reliable source, Boxofficeindia.com is. You cite the former but wikilink the latter in the text.
 * "Prior to the release of the film she talked about her "image makeover", calling it a fantastic experience. " Makes little sense.
 * "Koechlin described her time on the sets of the film as "fun", and developed a close friendship with Padukone, and the two were seen posing together for cameras at various promotional events for the film". Redundant trivia.
 * " Koechlin was appeared in a video entitled It's Your Fault, along with VJ Juhi Pandey. ". Grammar.
 * "The film is about her struggle with the normal activities in her life, and how she further discovers sexuality." Poorly written.
 * "Koechlin at numerous occasions acknowledged that the role was the most challenging in her film career, and she took six months off to prepare for it". Why is it necessary to mention "numerous occasions" and what did she take time off from?
 * "She met with Chib, and both her physiotherapist and speech therapist, spent considerable time with them, ". Grammar.
 * "gave Koechlin the most praise " => "highest praise"
 * The lead mentions a Screen Award for Margarita but there is no mention of this in the career section.
 * " The four-part series raised issues relating gender inequality, and premiered on YouTube". Grammar.
 * " It also featured actresses like Parineeti Chopra, Richa Chadda and Bhumi Pednekar". Poorly written.
 * "an independent film about two grieving people who are waiting in a hospital watching their relatives suffer in a coma". Another example of the writing style that needs tweaking.
 * None of the sources cited for the claim that her Printing Machine video received rave reviews are actually reviews.
 * "..apart from Waiting which will be released in Indian cinemas in April" Isn't this information already mentioned?
 * Razadan said that, "was impressed by her previous performances and knew she could carry off the part.". Not sure how this is notable enough.
 * "She attended an acting workshop that was conducted by the casting director, Atul Mongia and also learnt Anglo-Indian accent for her role". Grammar.
 * "Koechlin has been associated with theatre since the beginning of her acting career." If so, why is there a separate section for this?
 * Hardly enough information about her roles in the stage plays. For instance, nothing is written about her stage play Skeleton Woman other than this: "She won The Hindu's 2009 The MetroPlus Playwright Award along with Prashant Prakash for the play Skeleton Woman which they both co-wrote.", which makes little sense if we don't know what the play was about/what her role was in it.
 * "In her interview she said, "Theater is really an actor's playground", and continued "There's nothing like performing for a live audience. Ego-wise also, because you get this goose-bumps-and-applause thing. It doesn't matter what day you're having, good or bad, once you come to the rehearsal hall, you leave everything behind. When you're on stage, you're in the show." What interview are you referring to, and why is such a big quote relevant?
 * The infobox says that she married Kashyap in 2011, but the personal life section states 2013.
 * "On the morning of 19 May 2015 Kashyap and Koechlin arrived at the Mumbai family court together and filed for divorce". Why is the fact it was morning important?
 * "She had abstained from talking much about her personal life since". Grammar.
 * Post the separation Koechlin in an interview with Daily News and Analysis said, "[But] everyone has doubts, we're all human. Even as an actor, you have days when you haven't slept enough, you don't feel like you're good enough or pretty enough... But ultimately, it's all about attitude. You must live with a little abandon and not be self-conscious. You ought to stop staring at yourself in the mirror, and just smile a little!". No context about what she is talking about.
 * Why is P&G in italics?
 * "Koechlin was accompanied by Shonali Bose's cousin Malini Chib, a person with cerebral palsy, who was largely the inspiration behind her film Margarita with a Straw". Repeat info. We already know that from the career section.
 * "Koechlin has also presented numerous monologues revolving around pressing social matters at different events". Why "revolving around"?
 * Is "NGO H.E.A.L.. Humans of Bombay" with the two periods part of the organisation's name?
 * "She spoke at a conference on Child sexual abuse organised by actor Rahul Bose's NGO H.E.A.L.. Humans of Bombay, a Facebook Group, shared a post by Koechlin, in which she opened up about going through sexual abuse at the age of 9". This sentence makes little sense.
 * " Her monologue which discussed the daily wars women have to wage against patriarchy, had bits from her personal diary as well.". Huh?
 * "After playing string and independent characters ". String?
 * "she gained recognition for her versatility for playing unconventional role". Plagiarised from Priyanka Chopra's article and is an unsourced claim.
 * What makes The Quint a reliable source?
 * Isn't ScoopWhoop essentially a WP:BLOG?
 * "The Week stated that with her powerful performances, and by voicing her opinions she "has always stayed ahead of her contemporaries in the industry". Nothing new in the quote that hasn't already been said before.
 * " has been dubbed as the "queen of experimental fashion" Dubbed by whom?
 * "In 2014, Koechlin was among the judges of a model hunt, The Max Fashion Icon organised by Max Fashion and the Cosmopolitan Magazine." How is that notable?
 * Ref no. 25 needs to be formatted correctly. Publisher/work field missing. Same for ref. no 37.
 * Ref. no 43, 49, 53, 60, 63, 64, 65, 66, 69, 79, 104, 109, 120, and 125 needs correction.
 * What makes The Commercial Appeal a reliable source?
 * What makes Scroll.in a reliable source?
 * Thank you for all the work that you are putting in.   Numerounovedant   Talk  08:03, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Coordinator note: With the number of prose and source issues brought to light, it's clear this was not adequately prepared before bringing it to FAC. Therefore, I will be archiving the nomination. -- Laser brain  (talk)  15:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC) -- Laser brain  (talk)  15:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.