Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kathryn D. Sullivan/archive1

Kathryn D. Sullivan

 * Nominator(s):  and 

This article is about Kathy Sullivan. Sullivan was selected as a NASA astronaut candidate with NASA Astronaut Group 8, the first group to include women; the group also included Sally Ride and Judith Resnik. Unlike them, Sullivan is still alive, and is currently serving as a scientific advisor to President Joe Biden. She has flown in space and descended to the deepest point in the world's oceans. Hawkeye7  (discuss)  20:40, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Image review

 * File:Kathryn Sullivan, PCAST Member (cropped).jpg. What is the evidence this was taken by a federal employee acting within the scope of their duties, rather than being (for example) a copyright acquired by the federal government or held elsewhere?
 * It is on the White House site, and the copyright notice says everything on the site is either PD or CC-SA 3.0
 * File:Sullivan Views the Earth - GPN-2000-001082.jpg. Dead links.
 * Replaced with a current link. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * File:STS-41-G Sullivan checks SIR-B antenna latch.jpg Can we just have one link, that works, on the image page?
 * Doesn't seem so.
 * File:Sullivan and Ride Show Sleep Restraints - GPN-2000-001032.jpg Dead links
 * Added an archive link. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:18, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Seem to be having trouble with NASA's image search. All four images in the NASA career section are there and available online, but server seems overloaded. Archive.org is snafu refuses on the grounds that the images are online. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * Not very much.
 * " They installed a valve into a satellite propulsion system that mimicked that of Landsat 4 and transferred 59 kilograms (130 lb) of hydrazine to it using the ORS." So they didn't actually refuel a satellite?
 * Correct. Made this clearer. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "In September 1988, Sullivan was assigned to the STS-61-J mission, which was scheduled to deploy the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) in August 1986.[22] " There seems to be an issue of continuity with this sentence.
 * Typo. Should be "1985". Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support--Wehwalt (talk) 15:46, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments Support by Balon Greyjoy
All I have! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 14:56, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It looks like her service years are 1988-2006, which is short of the standard 20 year retirement. Were there extenuating circumstances to her retiring early from the Navy Reserves, or did she separate instead of retire? I know the source says retirement, but it seems strange that she wouldn't have done all 20 years.
 * It does seem strange but I have no explanation for it. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "The rules required that humanities students..." This reads vaguely, maybe something like "The school required that humanities students take three science to graduate"
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a bit of MOS:SANDWICH in the NASA career and Civilian career sections. Not a dealbreaker for me, but not sure if you want to change the layout at all.
 * Moved the images around so the civilian career should be okay now. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Nice work! I support this nomination. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 11:51, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments by Z1720
Non-expert prose review


 * Reviewers are always welcome. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * "Her tenure ended on January 20, 2017, with the swearing in of President Donald Trump." Her appointment ending with Trump's presidency is not mentioned in the body. I don't think this is an important fact in her biography, so perhaps it can be, "Sullivan was Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere and Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) after being confirmed by the US Senate on March 6, 2014, and her tenure ended on January 20, 2017."
 * Changed as suggested. Added end of her tenure to the body. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "and his wife Barbara née Kelly." I think "née Kelly" should be in brackets.
 * Added a parenthetical comma. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "She chose to enter the University of California, Santa Cruz (UCSC)," -> "She chose to attend the University of California, Santa Cruz (UCSC)" I think attend is a more precise word for this situation.
 * "Enter" is the more precise. "Attend" would imply that she was already a student. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Suggest using level 3 heading to divide the "NASA career" section
 * Added. They always cause problems with the image placement. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "In 2014, Sullivan was honored in the Time 100 list." -> "In 2014, Sullivan was named in the Time 100 list of most influential people in the world." Some people might not consider it an honor to be on this list, so named makes it more neutral. Also, not everyone knows what Time 100 is, so to avoid people clicking on the link to find out I suggest adding a brief description of what the list is.
 * We wouldn't want that. Added a bit about what it is. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Those are my thoughts. I made some minor edits to the article while reviewing it (mostly formatting). Please ping when the above are addressed. Z1720 (talk) 19:06, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * All points addressed. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:00, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Comments have been addressed. No further concerns. Z1720 (talk) 12:22, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments by Kusma
Great work on all these women astronauts! I have a few comments but nothing major I think.
 * Rhea Seddon is ready to go next. Anna Fisher is languishing at GA, and Eileen Collins at A-Class. That leaves Shannon Lucid; I am yet to start on that one. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:46, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Will continue soon, bed now. —Kusma (talk) 23:41, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm wondering whether some section titles can be improved, or things moved around a little. The STS-41-G section starts with a paragraph about other astronaut work with little connection to that mission. The STS-61-J was cancelled, which could be reflected in the section title ("Cancelled Hubble Space Telescope deployment mission" is too long, but maybe you get what I think). The first sentence of "military career" seems slightly out of place given the title, but maybe that is the best one can do.
 * Reworked the first sentence of "military career" to make the connection clearer. Split the first paragraph of STS-41-G, moving the first half into the previous subsection. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:46, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "numerous in-cabin experiments as well as activating eight "Getaway Special" canisters" do we know anything about these?
 * Linked to the article on Getaway Special. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:46, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "firing a pulse of electron into the upper atmosphere and recording the luminosity induced with a special camera" wouldn't we usually say "an electron pulse" or "a pulse of electrons"? (I'm also curious about the experiment; given how far beta radiation travels in sea level air I would expect you need to have near vacuum conditions for this experiment to do much. But that is probably too much detail here).
 * Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:46, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is the only place where I've seen the abbreviation "CAPOCOM". Typo?
 * Typo. Corrected. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:46, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Happy with changes so far. Slightly more: Think that's all! —Kusma (talk) 16:35, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The main infobox image has fairly low resolution and doesn't scale up well to larger thumbnail sizes. (This is a problem with the original White House image). Consider other relatively recent portraits instead?
 * "The STS-61-J mission was cancelled after the January 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, but the crew continued to work on the mission." Hmm, that almost sounds like they pretended it wasn't cancelled. Better to say they worked on the mission objectives?
 * That sounds better. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "They also operated a variety of cameras, including the IMAX cargo bay camera, for Earth observations from their record setting altitude of 380 miles" a bit convoluted, and it is unclear which record is being set. Perhaps make the record (I assume it is furthest distance from Earth in the Space Shuttle) an extra sentence and clarify. Was the record ever broken during the Shuttle's service ? (probably equalled by further Hubble missions).
 * There is a bit of debate about this but I'm not sure that this qualifies as a RS. Officially, STS-31's record was broken by the STS-82 HST servicing mission. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. (Not a fan of the sentence in parentheses about the record being broken; parentheses make it look too much how I write when I can get away with it). That dude on Twitter uses different data from NASA? —Kusma (talk) 22:12, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where his data comes from. Since STS-82 was an all-male mission, Sullivan holds the altitude record for a woman. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  23:42, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * say who Sylvia Earle is
 * It is in the next sentence, but moved forward a bit. Sullivan always refers to her as "Her Deepness". At the time fewer people had been to Challenger Deep than the Moon, but after a spate of descents in 2020-2021 this is no longer true. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "William J. Clinton" why so formal?
 * I only met him once. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * In response to the question regarding the formality of William J Clinton, I have updated the article to reflect Bill Clinton as his more commonly used name.--TommyBoy (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * External links could do with some copyediting (and perhaps thinking about which of these are needed). "Appearances of Kathy Sullivan on the C-Span TV network" would be clearer for the first one. "Talking about how she felt to be selected", the second one, should state more clearly that the link goes to a video. The third website seems to have more than just podcasts.
 * The C-SPAN external link is implemented with a template. One that is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible template. I'm not changing it. Suggest seeking consensus at Template talk:C-SPAN if you feel strongly about it. Hawkeye7   (discuss)
 * I will go back to pretending the template isn't there. External links sections don't get read a lot these days. —Kusma (talk) 22:12, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * While I'm still not thrilled about the lead image (but not sure what to suggest as a replacement), changes are enough for me to support. —Kusma (talk) 22:12, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Support by Figureskatingfan
I have nothing to add that others haven't already added. Congrats on your ongoing work on articles about women astronauts. This is a well-written and well-sourced bio, so it has my enthusiastic support. Best of luck going forward. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:41, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Coord note
I conducted a source review for reliability/formatting and nothing of concern leapt out so I'll be promoting this shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 15:45, 27 September 2022 (UTC)