Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Keith Miller with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 11:50, 28 May 2010.

Keith Miller with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948

 * Nominator(s):  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

On of the main players in the team, one of the two frontline attacking fast bowlers, a frontline batsman, and the best slips fielder in the time (and the best fielder overall after Neil Harvey it was generally thought). Also a colourful character who wasn't worried about losing or winning, he had a few fights with captain Bradman, and turned up drunk at one match, and deliberately didn't try during another match because he didn't agree with massacring the opposition.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment—no dab links or dead external links. Ucucha 01:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment — Surely there is more on his background... How'd he perform against England in 1946–47?  Aaroncrick  TALK 06:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Fattened  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  07:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * Early tour: "Australia traditionally fielded its first-choice team in the tour opener, which was customarily against Worcestershire." Sounds a little clumsy and not sure about "customarily"; traditional would be better, but it's already in the sentence. What about "As was the custom, Australia fielded its first-choice team in the traditional tour opener against Worcestershire"?
 * "Bradman did not bowl him in the first innings, but he briefly rolled his arm over in taking the last two wickets ..." Did not bowl him and rolled him arm over sounds a little like jargon to me, particularly the latter. However, not a big deal.
 * Link use of "short-pitched" (first use in main body), rather than "short" later in the sentence?
 * "However, Miller was able to account for Bill Edrich and twice claimed Jack Robertson..." Do you need to explain why this is significant?
 * Yeah sure, Edrich scored heavily the year before and JR was a Test candidate  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


 * "The MCC—who ran cricket at the time..." Would "administered" be better? I know why the word "ran" has been used, but it sounds too informal. Not sure of a better word, though.
 * "This left the county with a 78-run headstart for the second innings, but Miller again rose to the challenge..." Not sure about "headstart" but not that bothered. However, "rose to the challenge" implies judgement of his performance. Or am I being pedantic?
 * Is there anything about the reaction he got from press or spectators? For example, was he seen as a big threat before the Tests or did his short bowling attract any comment before the Tests?
 * Quoted Fingo  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

More to follow. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * First Test:"Compton's fall at 7/405 exposed the bowlers": jargon? Might confuse the non-cricketer.
 * This section seemed a little too detailed to me, particularly the early part, but not a big deal. And the short bowling part is very good.
 * Did Miller hit Hutton on his bad arm? I can't remember, but will check in a day or two.
 * Second Test: "Miller was given a life"; jargon?
 * "who dived and parried the ball up in the air before falling on his back and catching the leather sphere as it came down". This doesn't work at all for me, leather sphere sounds a little silly. Maybe rephrase it such as "who dived and parried the ball up in the air, fell on his back and caught it coming down."
 * "Bradman noticed this and addressed Miller by his name, rather than his nickname"; presumably this is significant. Does it need spelling out?
 * "Miller had a quiet period on the field during July": being pedantic, but is "on the field" a bit too much like jargon? I recently had an amusing misunderstanding by a non cricketer using this in an article!
 * Who noted that Miller was more known for celebrity stuff than his cricket in July?
 * Tweaked to refer to column inches  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

More later, hope this helps. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:08, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * "The match against Surrey was immediately followed[12]" Ref in middle of sentence. Also, is it necessary as the same ref is used twice in the next sentence?
 * Third Test: Can Miller really be given credit for the dropping of Hutton? As I understand it, he was dropped because he drew away in the Second Test where Miller didn't bowl.
 * I thought it was bumpers generally, thus a cumulative effect, especially as Miller was going to bowl again at OT  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


 * "but he again caught Compton.[34] He again earned the ire of the crowd": Repetition of again.
 * "apparently in retaliation to the Englishman's bouncing of Lindwall": Should it be "in retaliation for..."?
 * The poker and money brandishing. Was there no reaction from Bradman (or anyone else) to this as it seems a fairly severe breach of discipline.
 * Nothing found there. But saw some extra stuff in a bio of Fingo about Bradman shouting at him at Lord's. Inserted  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Bradman ordering Miller to stop. Frith, in Bodyline, claims that Bradman said to Washbrook around this time that he didn't want the bowlers to bowl short, but he couldn't stop them. This came from a book by Washbrook. Can both of these be true?
 * You should add the different versions then. I hadn't heaard of this  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Fourth Test: "He then took another boundary ... cover for four." Uses "then" three times in three sentences.
 * Later tour matches: "Miller had gained a high profile in England ... subject of much media speculation." It is not clear whether this part refers to 1945 or 1948. What kind of social functions did he attend? And the Princess Margaret thing is mentioned in the lead, and I think it needs exlaining more here. At the very least, what kind of speculation and by whom?
 * Role: "Productivity with the willow" does not work for me.
 * "Miller was Australia's third-leading Test wicket-taker behind Lindwall and Johnston, who took 27 apiece." Sounds a little clumsy; third highest number of wickets?
 * General: Were there any come-backs for what seemed like his frequent bouts of arguing with Bradman?
 * Any judgements by others on his performance? E.g. the press, Wisden, Fingleton?
 * A very good article; possibly too much detail about scores at different points, but not a problem for me. There may be some bits of jargon which a non-cricketer wouldn't understand, but I haven't noticed any others. Will have a last check of the article in a day or two. --Sarastro1 (talk) 19:58, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * did the rest  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Support: Great stuff! --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources comments
 * Two citations to "Mallet". What is this source?
 * Otherwise, sources look OK. Brianboulton (talk) 00:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixing Ashley Mallett  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  01:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Support Comment  pending minor quibbles below, reading through now . Will jot queries below: Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Miller played as a right-arm opening fast bowler and a right-handed batsman who batted in the middle-order. - could you say "Miller played as a right-arm opening fast bowler and a right-handed middle-order batsman." to avoid repetition?


 * Victory Tests is in quotes in one place and not in others. Need to figure out which is the one you want to use.
 * Thanks. Attending  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  00:03, 26 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Images pre-emptive notice that both photos were used in the last FAC Featured article candidates/Keith Miller in the 1946–47 Australian cricket season/archive1 and the graph is self-made with the stats source attached on both the caption and the image page.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll )  00:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Why's the picture in the infobox so tiny? Is it some limitation in the infobox template itself? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Support - looks like the issues have been dealt with; if new issues come up with they should be fixed as well. Khoikhoi 07:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)


 *  Comments Support
 * Miller took 13 wickets at a batting average of 26.28... -- wouldn't we normally just say "at an average"?
 * Already done by Giants I think, couldn't find it  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Pedantry: Australia amassed 4/414 declared in their one effort with the bat -- "Australia" should take "its"; "Australians" would take "their". Likewise, The MCC—who administered cricket at the time -- "who" really should be "which"; "MCC players" (or "MCC administrators" in this case) would take "who". There may be other examples...
 * Done  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There were others; think I took care of them. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Pls check for overlinking, for instance Sid Barnes is linked twice in the space of a few paragraphs in the Second Test section.
 * Yup  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't want to hit this too hard but there are a few occasions where you could substitute Miller's name with something else. For instance in the last para of Second Test, you start successive sentences with his name, which shouldn't be necessary. Again, don't go overboard in your response to this, I don't think it's too bad but there are a few places that could stand some mixing up to avoid it.
 * Doing, although I've been told using anything other than Miller and "he/him/his" is too flowery/informal/indirect  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Understood/agreed -- wasn't a big issue. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering that his friendship with Margaret is given some prominence in the lead, there's not much on it in the body of the article -- anything else we could add?
 * Heh. Given the gentlemanly nature of the media in those days, nothing specific is ever given, except that he had a few royal dinners....but nevertheless people always harp on about it over and over without giving any details.  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, we can only explain what we know... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Apart from those relatively minor things (and the miniscule pic noted earlier) it looks fine, well done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed pic  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thought 300px was fair -- a size that works for a portrait-shaped image doesn't always for landscape. Anyway, happy to support -- well done! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments – Read it from beginning to end, while making little copy-edits along the way; note that I got some of the overlinking that Ian described above, including the specific example. Overall, it's another fine piece of cricket work. I do, however, have a couple things that simple copy-edits couldn't help:
 * In the First Test, it's a little unclear to a cricket novice why what Miller was doing was looked down upon by the spectators. The one explanatory bit given is "including shouts of Bodyline", but as a non-cricket expert, I had to look at the Bodyline article to get a better understanding of the reaction. Did the fans think that Miller was trying to intimidate the English cricketers? In the article, that doesn't come across as well as it could.
 * Just found a little copy-edit issue while looking at this section for the comment above. The block quote says, "Let us show them how pleased we are and give a warmheated greeting this morning." I don't have the books that include this quote, but I wonder if that is meant to be "warmhearted". Also, the quote is like this in the main article on the Test.
 * In the references, there appear to be Roland Perry books from 2005 and 2006. The 2006 book isn't included in the bibliography, and if it is meant to be included, it's unclear which book most of the cites come from.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 22:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. They're the same book, there was some earlier mixup about the year of publication. Explained shortpitched bowling and typo and overlinking  YellowMonkey  ( vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll '')  03:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.