Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Keldholme Priory election dispute/archive1

Keldholme Priory election dispute

 * Nominator(s): ——  SerialNumber  54129  09:58, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Priory dispute, Yorkshire. 1308. Archbishop throws weight around and nuns cart his backside down the road a piece (metaphorically speaking). It's not quite Castle Anthrax, but if you're after administrative angst and argumentative archbishops, all combined with a hefty (healthy?!) dose of immorality, get in there. Cheers! —— SerialNumber  54129  09:58, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Image review

 * File:Entrance to Keldholme Priory (geograph 2348952).jpg - could be categorized on Commons but I don't think I can make you. So do that if you want to.
 * File:Remains of Rosedale Abbey - geograph.org.uk - 269290.jpg - everything looks good here

So you should be good to go on images then.  Kees08  (Talk)   04:16, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, added a couple, but it's not easy, so I'll probably add some more when on desktop. Cheers! ——  SerialNumber  54129  07:40, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Update: Added a couple more. Cheers, ——  SerialNumber  54129  12:29, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Alrighty, should be good to go on images.  Kees08  (Talk)   05:52, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

SC

 * Placeholder for now. - SchroCat (talk) 12:01, 24 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * Link prioresses?
 * Linked.
 * I think I'm being dense here, but I'm struggling with "but she also seems not to have recovered popularity among her sorority".
 * Yes, it is a bit. How about but she also seems to have become unpopular with the nuns, which is close to a similar sentence in the opening para, but perhaps far enough from it?

Background
 * "and its reputation was such" The connection between the resignations and the local sheriff getting his jollies is a little jarring unless there was something a little more concrete to tie the two together (like (sex) scandals causing the resignations)
 * No connection, unfortunately, so carved it out to indicate two different forms of ill-repute: "The priory's reputation was further damaged by suspicions that the Sheriff..."


 * Pykering
 * "Much of what we know of" -> "Much of what is known of"
 * Thanks, half-inched.
 * "In the words of Eileen Power, "pandemonium reigned" -> "In the words of the medievalist/historian/medieval historian/etc Eileen Power, "pandemonium reigned"
 * Gone with the under-used "medievalist".
 * "Eileen Power described Joan" – you've already full named her above
 * Power'd.


 * Acrimony
 * "Says Burton, "for the second time she succeeded" de Stapleton": I'm not a fan of "says Burton", and we don't need this to be a quote – it is easily enough rephrased
 * Perhaps "For the second time in Keldhome's recent history de Ebor' succeeded de Stapleton as prioress, in what amounted, says Burton, to a posthumous..."?


 * Aftermath
 * I know you link to dissolution of the monasteries, but would mentioning the phrase "dissolution of the monasteries" be better?
 * Fair enough, yes; something like "...until the house was closed in 1536 by the dissolution of the monasteries."?
 * "Eileen Power has suggested" – already linked and full named further up
 * Ditto'd.

That's it. Leaning to support at the moment, but would like these to be considered first. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 12:20, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Cheers SC, let me know whether these adjustments address your excellent points. Good health and don't lean too far :)   ——  SerialNumber  54129  17:48, 30 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Support Nicely done, and I think that (from the point of view of a subject ignoramus) that this covers all the main points I would expect it to. - SchroCat (talk) 17:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks again! I must've typed slower than I thought up there :)  ——  SerialNumber  54129  17:51, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Support Comments from Tim riley

 * Lead
 * In the second sentence you say, but don't mean, that the archbishop, not the priory, was in a state of turmoil.
 * As was my prose: how about recasting it in its entirety ("After a series of resignations by its prioresses, the priory was in a general state of turmoil, and the Archbishop of York, William Greenfield, appointed one of the nuns to lead the house")?
 * "to lead the house that year" – a touch ambiguous. I take it to mean the appointment was made in that year rather than that it was intended to last for that year only.
 * Yes, part of the above now.
 * "It is likely, however" – the second "however" in the one para, which is at least one too many, in my view.
 * Removed all "however"s except two.
 * "eventually, Greenfield" – unexpected comma
 * Removed.
 * Background
 * Some doubt about the italicisation here for "Victoria County History (VCH)". The linked WP article doesn't italicise the title – not quite sure why not – but if you are going to do so here oughtn't you to italicise the abbreviation too? (Question asked without having the faintest idea of the answer.)
 * Good point(s)! So I've italicised both the initialism here and WP:BOLDly inserted to the main article...see how long that lasts...
 * The answer would be about four hours :)   ——  SerialNumber  54129  11:25, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

That's all from me.  Tim riley  talk   18:50, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Pykering appointed
 * "On account of the fact that" – rather a long-winded way of saying "because", perhaps?
 * Absolutely.
 * "The Archdeacon placed de Pykering in corporal possession of the priory, and to rebuke those nuns who had opposed her predecessor." – I'm struggling with this. There seem words missing at the end: to rebuke them he did what?
 * Well, the sentence was crap, to be sure: but it was meant to be "and rebuked"?
 * Acrimony in the convent
 * "a posthumous victory of Greenfield" – over rather than of surely?
 * Of course.
 * Notes
 * 1. "tending to be small, poor and yet close to the border" – why "yet", I wonder? Would you expect large, rich priories close to the border? And did Power really write such an ungrammatical sentence as "Moreover the conditions of life [plural] set its [singular] stamp etc?
 * I've removed "yet", per you; unfortunately, for the ungrammmarly Power, see half way down the page :)
 * 3. "she must have died rather than have resigned—as Keldholme's prioress Emma de Stapleton had done" – I think you want the dash slightly earlier to avoid ambiguity. At present the sentence could equally say E de S died or resigned. If you move the dash to between "died" and "rather", it will remove the ambiguity.
 * I split the thing in two, in fact; I think it's tighter now?
 * Bibliography
 * I don't know what is awry with the Haines citation, but it's gone a funny colour in part.
 * I fixed this one. - SchroCat (talk) 19:44, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Cheers what colour was it? I can't for the life of me see anything...
 * I've emailed you a screenshot. - SchroCat (talk) 08:50, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Cheers, thanks for looking in! Hopefully, I've addressed your suggestions to your satisfaction. ——  SerialNumber  54129  08:20, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Happy to support now. One point from re-reading: blue-link addicts may feel Yorkshire wants linking in the first line, though I can't conceive that anyone reading this article will need to click to find out what Yorkshire is. (As a Lancastrian I could tell them but will refrain.) I know some editors who would slap a [[sic]] on Power's poor English, but personally I'd leave it alone: a sic does rather break the flow of the prose and is, I think, best kept for cases where there is genuine scope for misunderstanding. The article seems comprehensive, and is well and widely referenced. It meets the FA criteria, in my view. –   Tim riley  talk   09:02, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, and for the advice—it's a useful starting point for discussion in case the same thing is raised by other reviewers.Also, glancing back over Power's page above, I wonder if I could shoehorn in a mention of the nuns' "hot blood"  ;)   ——  SerialNumber  54129  09:56, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt
An interesting article. Just a few things.
 * by its prioresses, the priory " can these similar words be separated more?


 * How about "establishment"?
 * "Keldholme itself was placed under interdict and threatened with excommunication. " can places be excommunicated?


 * "and the nuns threatened with".
 * "St. Mary" should this be "St Mary"?


 * Indeed!
 * "Few of the Prioress's names have been recorded, " shouldn't Prioress's be plural?


 * Done.
 * "by two local parish rectors," the C of E is, perhaps understandably, not an area of expertise for me, but is there some level of redundancy in this description?


 * Fair enough; "two local rectors" OK?
 * "Emma de Stapleton" redlinked multiple times and not necessarily on first usage. Also you are not consistent in whether to refer to her as "Stapleton" or "de Stapleton".


 * Right. Redlinked in the lead and first subsequent mention, and all other mentions are now consistently prefixed de.
 * Is the capitalisation of "Prioress" consistent with MOS?


 * It is now! ;)
 * "received a heavy[16] penitence from Greenfield." should "penitence" be "penance"?


 * I think it should be, and have done so; oddly, though, our article on penitance redirects to penance.
 * Why is part of the title of this page in italics?--Wehwalt (talk) 10:38, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I accidentally/mistakenly used instead of    when linking  above  :)
 * Thanks very much for all those useful suggestions,, hopefully, they've been addressed as painlessly as possible! ——  SerialNumber  54129  11:21, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Sources review

 * No spotchecks carried out
 * Format
 * Ref 32 p. range
 * Check page number (given as 155167) in Burton 2005


 * Quality and reliability: the sources appear to be of the required FA standards of quality and reliability. Brianboulton (talk) 14:28, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Well spotted! Many thanks for the review, . ——  SerialNumber  54129  14:38, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 11:29, 22 May 2019 (UTC)