Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Killswitch Engage/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 17:26, 10 January 2010.

Killswitch Engage

 * Nominator(s):  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 16:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because the article is informative and well cited. No edit wars are occurring, and has been a GA for 2 years. Should meet all of the FA criteria  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 16:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment. Alt text done; thanks. Please add alt text to images; see WP:ALT. File:Killswitch Engage Pic08.jpg lacks alt text, and the alt text for File:Kse-adam-joel.jpg needs to be rewritten as it duplicates the caption (see WP:ALT) and cannot be verified by a non-expert who is looking only at the image (see WP:ALT). Eubulides (talk) 18:47, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed(?)  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 19:20, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Better, but I'm afraid it still needs improvement. The alt text for the lead image is "Killswitch Engage in 2007", which (1) tells us nothing of what that image looks like (violating WP:ALT) and (2) contains details like proper names and dates that cannot be verified merely by looking at the image (violating WP:ALT). The alt text for the 2nd image File:Howard jones of killswitch engage.jpg is better, but it conveys little about why that image is worth looking at: the massive arm and tattoo, the man shouting into the microphone. The third image File:Killswitch Engage.jpg has no alt text. The fourth image File:Kse-adam-joel.jpg has the alt text "Two men are shown playing guitar on a stage set" is not really adequate either: its "are shown" is one of the WP:ALT , and surely the alt text can say something about what the men and their costumes actually look like. Please take a bit of time to read WP:ALT, look at the examples, think about what a blind user would want to know about the images, and then give it another try. Eubulides (talk) 05:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * How are the new ones? I took some time to look at examples on WP:ALT and on The Beatles to get a better idea of what the text should be. File:Kse-adam-joel.jpg 's alt text may need to be changed, as I didn't know a perfect way to word it.   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 15:11, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it looks good now. Eubulides (talk) 17:37, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Have you consulted the primary contributors of the article (looks like they are Faded and M3tal H3ad) before nominating the article, as the FAC instructions ask you to do? NW ( Talk ) 20:22, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Right before I nominated the article I contacted 4 editors that have the most edits on the article that have edited it recently. I was confused at the exact syntax of how to do it (before I nom, after nominated, or whatnot) though.  I will contact those editors as well, despite in-activeness.   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 20:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose (suggest withdrawal)—The article presents a reasonable-enough timeline of the band's history, but there is little analysis anywhere in the prose. For eg: I read the entire article and still have no clue what Killswitch Engage sound like. Per present standards for band FAs, you'd need a couple of lines about it in the lead, and section dedicated to musical style and influences in the prose. You also devote far too much text to the band's tours; to be honest, reading that "Killswitch Engage played the with ,  and " makes for quite uninteresting reading. Every notable band goes on tour, so concert itenaries really aren't that important to note. On the other hand, concentrate on what makes the band unique—their music, critical response to their work, their influences, bands influenced by them etc.—indopug (talk) 04:34, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll add a section for Style and lyrical themes within the next two days. Specifically, which sentences should I remove (about tours)? I'm sure there are many that don't show anything about the band, but some are important, especially when a guitarist had back problems and couldn't play.   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 13:31, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No specific sentences as such, but this article has sentences which list every single band KSE toured with; these can be cut completely: "36 Crazyfists and Five Pointe O...From Autumn to Ashes, Eighteen Visions, and 36 Crazyfists...DragonForce, Chimaira, and He Is Legend...Iron Maiden, Evanescence, Lamb of God, Linkin Park, Slayer, and Marilyn Manson...Iron Maiden, Children Of Bodom, Carcass, At The Gates, Exodus, Kreator, Opeth, Unearth and As I Lay Dying".—indopug (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed the majority (if not all) of those. Started a styles an lyrical themes section, will be added when I have time to put more detail into it.  Until then, can this be put  (unless somebody else wishes to add to that section)?   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 21:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Added the new section.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 21:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Oppose on sources What makes these reliable?
 * http://www.lambgoat.com/features/articles/killswitch_engage.asp
 * http://web.archive.org/web/20080223005153/http://www.punkrocks.net/display_interview.php?id=49
 * http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=239; http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=4557 (it says content is independent of record label)
 * http://www.rockeyez.com/interviews/int-killswitchengage-mikedantonio.html
 * http://www.cm-punk.org/ (also not including any info from this that is cited)

RB88 (T) 23:11, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Remove italics from online-only refs and put italics on print publications cited, even when citing their websites.
 * Ensure all Roadrunner cites follow the same nomenclature of publisher. I'm seeing tons of different variations.
 * Lambgoat has been online for over 10 years and has a good reputation for fact checking and accuracy (Google news has some reliable sites that cite lambgoat as a reference)
 * We need proof I'm afraid. Otherwise it must be removed. RB88 (T) 19:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Was removed per comments below  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 20:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Punkrocks.net (now closed) was one of the largest punk rock websites, but closed in 2006. (Though it doesn't show anything about reliability), they had a stage at a major punk rock tour (Vans Warped Tour)
 * No substantial enough. Needs removal. RB88 (T) 19:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Was removed  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 20:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Blabbermouth is by far the largest metal website. While I don't consider it the most reliable website (one person runs the site), it is widely regarded as a reliable source here on wikipedia (see Blabbermouth.net and Google News
 * Removed that cite
 * Removed that cite as well.
 * What did you replace the above 2 with? RB88 (T) 19:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * One I just removed (guess the page didn't save before) and replaced with a cite from WWE.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 20:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The other I removed entirely, as it was already sourced by blabbermouth.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 20:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * As for the italics, do you want me to italicize the title (such as a ref from a magazine)?
 * Yes, print publications must be in italics everywhere, while online-only sources not. RB88 (T) 19:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How are they now?  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 20:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixing those now
 *  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 21:17, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment on sources; lambgoat.com, punkrocks.net, rocknworld.com, ultimate-guitar.com, metalunderground.com are fan-made (therefore non-reliable) sources. Blabbermouth is a widely respected website, can definitely be used for non-controversial topics such as news. Some sources about the site can be found on Blabbermouth.net.--  LYKANTROP    ✉  10:46, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Removing those cites and adding cites from their documentary dvd. For metalunderground I put it on The RS noticeboard to see if it is reliable.  Many articles here cite it, so if it isn't reliable I'll remove the cites from other articles. The Ultimate Guitar ref is referencing a professional review by the Ultimate Guitar team, not a random user, so should be considered reliable.   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 15:25, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed that one.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 01:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.