Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Léon Degrelle/archive1

Léon Degrelle

 * Nominator(s): ♠Vami  _IV†♠  21:22, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

This article is about a traitor to his nation, a turncoat to his people, and an apostate before God – a Nazi. Léon Degrelle, Belgium's own home-grown Quisling, began his public life as a student journalist associated with a political Roman Catholic youth group. By the end of it, he was a idol of the international pantheon of far right politics, forbidden from ever returning to his homeland. I began work on this article with some wiki-comrades last September and am quite pleased to now present it to FAC. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  21:22, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Previously: GAN, A-class review. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  21:24, 12 March 2022 (UTC)


 * It has also slipped my mind until to mention that this is a Vital Article (level 5). – ♠Vami  _IV†♠  16:27, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Image review &Charleroi image is missing alt text
 * File:Degrelle,_Leon.jpg: why is this work believed to be in the public domain?
 * According to Copyright rules by territory/France, a published image enters the public domain 70 years after the date of publishing; the newspaper scan that image was clipped from is from 1937. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  11:38, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If the copyright expired in 2007, it would probably still be copyrighted under US law (see the Hirtle chart). (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:46, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * i hate image copyright i hate image copyright – ♠Vami  _IV†♠  11:57, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * File:Léon_Degrelle_à_Charleroi_-_02.jpg: when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:29, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I do not know. Should I remove the image? – ♠Vami _IV†♠  11:38, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it has to be removed unless we can show it's public domain for some reason. Currently the licensing claims publication at least 70 years ago. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:46, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Axed. – ♠Vami  _IV†♠  11:57, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Source review and comments by Buidhe
I'll do another read-through. FYI I have a review open at Featured article candidates/First homosexual movement/archive1—another interesting topic in German history. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:46, 13 March 2022 (UTC) (t &#183; c)  buidhe  12:10, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The article currently relies heavily on the 1993 Conway book. I wonder why the book in further reading isn't cited? Other sources that may be worth considering:
 * Explains Degrelle's antisemitic views. Oddly antisemitism is never mentioned in the text of the article, which seems like an oversight. This may also help.
 * Another biography, which seems like a RS
 * This source might be helpful expanding a bit on his adoption by post-1945 Nazis
 * I am unaware of how to access these, though thanks to TWL I do have a means of looking for more Francophone sources. On my quest to find the de la Croix biography, though, I discovered that Martin Conway thoroughly rinsed de la Croix's book in 2017. At this point if there's anyone I trust to know Degrelle, and I know from the bibliograhies of other works discussing Degrelle that I'm not alone here, it's Martin Conway. I'll look for some more stuff to break up the wall of Conway and see if this time I can fit in the evolution of Degrelle's antisemitism (I previously didn't discuss because the sources thus far used, Trimbur 2015 excluded, didn't dwell on it either and Degrelle played with his cards very close to his chest anyway). – ♠Vami _IV†♠  13:16, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The degruyter source linked above is in TWL. The last one mentioned is on academia.edu, not linked because I don't know if it's a copyvio. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  13:34, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * https://search.informit.org/doi/abs/10.3316/ielapa.121105496812907 another possible source (t &#183; c)  buidhe  16:01, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Have read the paper; I'm going to rule it out. It's a comparison of mostly pre-1943 writings by pro-German Francophone Belgians. – ♠Vami  _IV†♠  22:50, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Re the personal life section, I disagree with splitting it out to make it more prominent and I think it makes more sense in something resembling chronological order. Currently you have the section under "Exile in Spain, 1945–1994" even though everything in the section occurred before 1945. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  07:43, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This has now been (re)affected. – ♠Vami  _IV†♠  13:17, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Definitely an improvement, but now I'm curious what happened to his five children after the war. Did they stay in Belgium? Also, did Degrelle get divorced after being permanently separated from his wife? (t &#183; c)  buidhe  16:34, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Tempting as it is to do a "where are they now" on the Degrelle brood, I must confess some ignorance - I have not gone looking. One of his children died in a car accident, I forget when. Another is the daughter whose marriage Degrelle attended in '69 in SS uniform. I know nothing else about his other children. As for Marie and Jeanne, the two women Degrelle was married to: I forget when Degrelle and Marie were divorced or when he married Jeanne. I do know though that she was also a divorcee, having been married to a French Nazi exile. Marie remained in Belgium and was sent to prison for a while (covered in Conway 19993 iirc). I could include this in a footnote. – ♠Vami  _IV†♠  19:15, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the second wife get a mention in the postwar exile section? How did he reconcile remarriage with traditional Catholic beliefs? (t &#183; c)  buidhe  20:36, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I have, with the aid of the French Wikipedia article, found and included details on Jeanne and dates for the... "divorce" with Marie Lemay. As it turns out, she died a few months before Degrelle married Jeanne. As for reconciling marrying a divorced woman... it's Degrelle. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  17:20, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * What about Degrelle's children? I see it claimed in various questionable sources that they were separated from their family and later reunited in Spain, is this true? (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:27, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I recall nothing about where I read that except that it's none of the sources I used for this article (edit: and was able to read; it's been a nightmare to track down French-language works). At least three of his children joined him in Spain; one, a son, died in a car accident, and two of his daughters got married in Spain. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  20:36, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: I am still planning to do a full source review, but I don't feel that all my comments above about sourcing/comprehensiveness are addressed, specifically with regard to antisemitism (this source, again is on TWL) and legacy with neo-Nazis (covered in this source, which would be more difficult to access, but you could try WP:RX). (t &#183; c)  buidhe  23:07, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I've thankfully found a PDF of the second source on Academia. I'll re-read the De Gruyter source and see what more I can add to the article with it; at the moment I'm seeing a "Beliefs" section under #Personal life. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  04:08, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I have sprinkled some observations of Degrelle's antisemitism throughout the article, thanks to Trimbur. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  21:16, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I have finally read all but the last two pages of Brüll; his article was indeed valuable. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  22:31, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm now mostly happy with the referencing. One issue: Political Catholicism in Europe 1918-1945 is an edited collection. Should cite the particular chapter and author you are citing, presumably this one (t &#183; c)  buidhe  23:52, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Good catch! The author and chapter name have been added, and the citations corrected. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  06:29, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Drive-by review by CactiStaccingCrane (talk)
I think that there are some images that can be included to the article, such as File:Léon Degrelle à Charleroi - 01.jpg. Other than that, well done! CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 08:53, 22 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I am aware of prior discussion about image copyright. As far as I know, since this picture was taken in 1 April 1944, it should be in the public domain. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 08:56, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works... (t &#183; c)  buidhe  09:08, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, I hate copyright... CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 09:14, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * me too comrade – ♠Vami _IV†♠  15:11, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Some smaller things: CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 09:14, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * prior to -> before
 * with a view to studying -> to study
 * 1904, and -> 1904 and
 * Lengthy sentence: "That year, Degrelle joined the Catholic Action for the Belgian Youth (Action catholique de la jeunesse belge, ACJB), a militant clerical youth organization dedicated to Catholic Action founded by the priest Louis Picard, whom Degrelle had met while studying in Namur."
 * time period -> time OR period
 * On 26 September 1936 he met -> On 26 September 1936, he met
 * apparently demonstrating
 * Another lengthy sentence: "Degrelle returned to Brussels on 30 July, and found that Belgium had been placed under a military administration and that Rex had in his absence been revitalized, reorganized, and formed a militia known as the Combat Formations (Formations de Combat)."
 * weaken local government -> weaken the local government
 * a pact, though only so as to not alienate Abetz, -> a pact, though to not alienate Abetz,
 * be an inferior people -> be inferior
 * 6 July, -> 6 July
 * Province of Málaga -> province of Málaga
 * following his death Belgium forbade the repatriation of his remains. -> Belgium forbade repatriation of his remains.
 * place at Auschwitz, and -> place at Auschwitz and
 * with regard to -> about
 * then ambassador -> then-ambassador
 * had standing to -> had the standing to
 * Franch-language -> French-language
 * I have now worked these in. –– ♠Vami _IV†♠  15:32, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

A bunch more technical stuff: CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 00:34, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Check Manual of Style/Layout to change the order of templates
 * Can I have specific examples? –– ♠Vami _IV†♠  04:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * See "Order of article elements" section. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 03:21, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Coordinator note
This has been open for more than three weeks and has yet to pick up a general support. Unless it attracts considerable further attention over the next three or four days I am afraid that it will have to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:22, 3 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, but this nomination has timed out.