Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lagonda Taraf/archive1

Lagonda Taraf

 * Nominator(s): 750h+ 23:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

My third nomination, following the Aston Martin DB9 and the Aston Martin Rapide articles which both have been promoted. This article is about a drop-dead gorgeous saloon car that was prouduced by the British automaker Aston Martin between 2015 and 2016; less than 200 units were built. Despite being short (just below 1000 words), I believe that it is comprehensive, well written and well sourced. Enjoy the read! 750h+ 23:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Support from ZKang123
Let me look through. A rather short article, but I agree it seems well-written and comprehensive at first glance.
 * I think the lead could have more of the technical details that's later elaborated in the body. For now, the lead seems rather short.
 * done


 * "priced at over one million dollars." – I think I would write "priced at over US$1 million".
 * done


 * "Aston Martin's Q division conducted the project" – not sure if conducted is the proper term. Like wouldn't it be "executed" or "taken on"?
 * done, changed to "carried out"


 * "Most of this testing" – "Most of the test"
 * done


 * "that only one hundred cars" ... "increased to two hundred units". Why not just use 100 cars and 200 units per the MOS on numbers? Not that you can't spell them out, however. Just a bit curious.
 * changed, people might prefer that


 * "Manufacture of the Taraf" – I think it should be "Manufacturing of the Taraf"?
 * Changed to "the manufacture".


 * "employs" – might suggest "makes" to sound more encyclopedic and less promo-ly
 * changed to "extensively incorporates"


 * "In lieu of the Rapide's pressed aluminium body" – what does this mean, however? Like, is it due to this pressed aluminum body that the Taraf features a lightweight carbon fibre exterior?
 * yes, the Rapide features a pressed aluminum body while the Taraf is carbon fibre


 * "The interior of the vehicle incorporated elements from other Aston Martin models, particularly the Rapide. It featured console-mounted push-button transmission controls, an advanced infotainment system, a 1,000-watt Bang & Olufsen BeoSound audio system, and leather upholstery."
 * I think it can be combined into: "The vehicle interior incorporates features from other Aston Martin models, particularly the Rapide, including console-mounted push-button transmission controls, an advanced infotainment system, a 1,000-watt Bang & Olufsen BeoSound audio system, and leather upholstery."
 * done


 * "The Taraf features Aston Martin's 5.9-litre V12 engine. It generates..." – can be combined into "The Taraf features Aston Martin's 5.9-litre V12 engine which generates..."
 * done


 * "Upon release, the Taraf received positive reviews" – "The Taraf received positive reviews upon its debut..."
 * I've removed "Upon release" since the reviews aren't just in its debut


 * I encourage in the reception section to use less direct lifting and perhaps a bit more rephrasing.
 * fixed.

That's all I have. Once these are addressed, I will be more than happy to support.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:01, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all of these comments i'll leave some comments on your FAC shortly! 750h+ 06:07, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I've expanded the lead little more by incorporating more details from the body. Feel free to rewrite accordingly. Otherwise, I'm willing to support.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Much thanks ZKang123, the comments were helpful, and are very much appreciated! I have altered it slightly. 750h+ 10:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Pseud 14

 * I would link saloon in the lead.
 * done


 * only 100 cars would be built for exclusively for the Middle Eastern market. -- only 100 cars would be built exclusively for the Middle Eastern market.
 * done


 * both cars possess a similar weight. -- despite the latter's larger size, both cars possess similar weight.
 * done


 * most expensive four-door saloon in -- I would link this first instance of "saloon" (and unlink the instance in "Design and technology")
 * done


 * Worth linking "infotainment", seems to be a blend word.
 * done


 * The Taraf received mostly positive reviews, with most reviewers citing -- consider tweaking so "reviews" and "reviewers" don't sound repetitive. Perhaps critics or something similar in liue of reviewers.
 * done


 * "it [does not] ride as well as its rivals, but despite its size and physical presence, it handles better than [you would] expect. -- put end quotation.
 * done


 * That's all from me. Another solid work about a luxury car. Pseud 14 (talk) 23:50, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the comments ! like i said, the comments are very much appreciated and i'll try to leave some comments on whatever FAC you have next (or FLC/GAN). 750h+ 00:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. Pseud 14 (talk) 00:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the helpful comments, Pseud! 750h+ 00:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Comments from MSincccc
In 1961, Lagonda introduced the Rapide,[note 1] the company's earliest four-door automobile. In 1974, Aston Martin introduced Aston Martin's second four-door model, the Lagonda, which was produced until 1990, when 645 units had been produced. In each one of the above cases, the comma after the year could be omitted as done in most articles following British English. MSincccc (talk) 16:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I can spot two references in lead. Could they be moved to the article body to comply with MOS:LEAD? It would look neater too.
 * In 1947, the entrepreneur and industrialist David Brown acquired both Lagonda and Aston Martin.[13][14][15] In 1961, Lagonda introduced the Rapide,[note 1] the company's earliest four-door automobile.


 * Thanks for the comments i've addressed them all. 750h+ 05:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The Taraf received predominantly positive reviews, with most critics noting the steep price as its primary drawback. This sentence is more preferable for the first sentence under the "Reception" section. Regards MSincccc (talk) 06:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * done
 * The following sentences could be modified as such-
 * Angus MacKenzie, reviewing for Motor Trend, wrote that "this $1 million saloon, hand-built by Aston Martin,...
 * done
 * Autocar magazine also criticised its price,...
 * done
 * Mike Duff of Car and Driver magazine emphasised the light yet responsive hydraulic steering and the chassis's impressive lateral grip, even in wet conditions.
 * done
 * You could also omit the "the" before entrepreneur and industrialist David Brown.
 * SchroCat said that the original layout was more preferable
 * Furthermore, could you please indicate the reference which speaks of Angus MacKenzie's review for Motor Trend.
 * done
 * Once these suggestions are addressed I would be more than willing to extend my support to this nomination. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 06:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * hope my responses were good. 750h+ 06:37, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @750h+ I will support this nomination, as the required changes have been made. The article overall is well-written and comprehensively covers all aspects of the Taraf, making it suitable for an FA. Regards.e. MSincccc (talk) 06:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support MSincccc, very much appreciated! 750h+ 06:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Image review (pass)

 * File:2015 Aston Martin Lagonda Taraf (19406457063).jpg - OK. Appropriately licensed.
 * File:1964 Lagonda Rapide front.jpg - OK. AGF on self-published image
 * File:Lagonda Taraf V12 (34103224876).jpg - OK. Appropriately licensed. Pseud 14 (talk) 23:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the image review, Pseud! Much appreciated as always! 750h+ 23:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Source review
Spot-check upon request. It's not terribly consistent which sources link their page numbers and which ones don't e.g #11 does but #15 doesn't. The NYT does not need an ISSN. Seems like we are mostly using magazines for car aficionados. Is there a source out there that discusses their reliability? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:24, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * i've linked the sources with pages that weren't linked. I removed the ISSN for the NYT source. As for the reliability for the car sources, both Car and Driver and Autoweek are owned by Hearst Communications, which publishes many reliable sources like the the San Francisco Chronicle so that should be fine. As for the other sources, like the magazines Autocar and Classic and Sports Car, they are the best I could find; cars--especially with the number of this model produced--are somewhat of an obscure topic that would be covered by reliable sources. I believe that the current sources are reputable 750h+ 07:48, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * wondering if you saw the above? 750h+ 09:26, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I saw it. I was kind of hoping that there is some discussion out there about the reliability of car magazines since this is a field where I know absolutely nothing. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I've looked through the WT:CAR archives and it unfortunately doesn't look like there was a discussion. 750h+ 23:59, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Jo-Jo, any further thoughts. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd love if there was someone who knows these magazines sufficiently to comment on their reliability. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok so I’ve found some info.
 * Car and Driver are published by Hearst Communications which publishes many reliable sources like SFGate
 * Top Gear is owned by BBC which is reliable
 * Motor Trend is owned by Motor Trend Group, which is owned by Warner Bros. Discovery, and i believe that is reliable
 * Auto Express and Evo were published by Dennis Publishing, which publishes the MoneyWeek and The Week magazine
 * Autocar and Classic and Sports Car are published by the Haymarket Media Group, which i believe has collaborated with the BBC.
 * Pinging editors like to see what they think. Best, 750h+ 08:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The big name, long-time car magazines listed above are written by highly competent writers who know cars well and are considered quite reliable by car enthusiasts. Note that Top Gear magazine is quite reliable but the Top Gear TV show is a complete farce. I've found that non-car magazines such as the NYT tend to be outside of their area of expertise (economics, politics) and therefore often just repeat basic facts from a press release instead of in-depth coverage.  Stepho  talk 08:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Seconding Stepho and 750h+; while clearly significant in establishing notability, newspapers and non-automotive journals are often less than reliable (NY Times called the Nissan Figaro a kei car once!). C&D, TG, MT, AX, Evo, Autocar, C&SC are all reliable.  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  01:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "I've found that non-car magazines such as the NYT tend to be outside of their area of expertise (economics, politics) and therefore often just repeat basic facts from a press release instead of in-depth coverage" Ha, that's a typical problem with news media I've noticed (in the field of science, not transportation), when people want to use them for stuff that you can use the primary source for. Anyhow, I take that these magazines used here work as sources? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:36, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks Jo-Jo. Thanks for the confirmation . 750h+ 07:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Jo-Jo, is this one all good? Gog the Mild (talk) 12:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I guess so. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:32, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

PCN02WPS
Comments to come. PCN02WPS ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 16:55, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Lead and infobox
 * The quote in the first paragraph (and/or when it appears in the body) should have attribution
 * done


 * "manufactured by the technology company ZF Friedrichshafen" → to simplify, ZF's qualification could be removed ("manufactured by ZF...")
 * done


 * Since there wasn't manufacturing in an country besides the UK, could "United Kingdom" be removed from the "assembly" parameter in the infobox
 * It’s usually like that in automobile articles (weird, I know)

Background/development
 * As someone with no knowledge of this stuff (apart from your articles), I will genuinely ask - do you think a redlink for Wilbur Gunn would be reasonable?
 * added


 * "When it was launched in 1939, the Lagonda Rapide V12 was" → recommend switching "it" and "the Lagonda Rapide V12" - having "it" in the first clause confused me at first because I assumed we were still talking about the M45R
 * added

Design and technology
 * Attribute quote as mentioned above
 * done


 * While not incorrect, I suppose, "possess similar weight" reads a little oddly formal to me; maybe "are of similar weight" or "have similar weight"?
 * done


 * "developed by ZF Friedrichshafen, a technology company" → as above, I don't think the last bit is necessary
 * done

That's all I've got for prose, nicely done. PCN02WPS ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 17:15, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the review and great comments, very much appreciated! 750h+ 17:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Good stuff, happy to support. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 10:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support PCN! Appreciated lots. 750h+ 10:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Co-ord query

 * hi FAC coords. with four supports, a completely image and source review, this has been open for three weeks. could I get any input from you all? 750h+ 03:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You can. It is that you are doing your nominations no favours by repeatedly nagging us. The next time I am looking for a nomination to consider closing I shall deliberately select one of the 27 nominations which have been waiting longer than this one. I suspect that my colleagues may be similarly inclined. Apart from this, I would only be repeating things I have already said on my talk page or your previous FAC; apparently to little end. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Whoops sorry about this. I thought only one co-ord ping per nomination would be a bit less annoying than previous. I’ll try to tone down on them. Best, 750h+ 18:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt

 * Not a subject I'm greatly familiar with but ...
 * "The Lagonda marque was established in 1906" Would calling it a "brand" be better if synonymous? Marque is not everywhere a common term.
 * done
 * "In 1961, Lagonda introduced the Rapide,[note 1] the company's " You've not before mentioned a company
 * Lagonda is the company
 * "In the same year, Aston Martin chose to revive the Lagonda brand aiming to explore various market segments and commemorate Lagonda's centenary.[26][27][28]" I might cut "aiming"
 * done
 * That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:14, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments, much appreciated! 750h+ 23:45, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support with the caveat that I'm not familiar with the subject matter and am not in a position to judge comprehensiveness.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:38, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks Wehwalt, appreciated! 750h+ 15:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Drive-by comments

 * Books: Taylor and Smale are not in alphabetical order.
 * "between 2015 and 2016". There is no between 2015 and 2016. Suggest 'in 2015 and 2016'.
 * If this is in British English, why "automaker" rather than carmaker?
 * "is based upon the chassis of the DB9 and Rapide". Suggest 'is based on the same chassis as the DB9 and Rapide'.
 * "The car received mostly positive reviews for its spacious rear seating and handling ability." As written, only two features were (mostly) positively reviewed. Perhaps tweak the sentence. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments, Gog. All have been addressed. Sorry about the excessive ping (won’t happen again). 750h+ 23:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Books: S comes before T.
 * The titles of the books should be in title case. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Both done. Sorry about that 750h+ 12:17, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 12:50, 24 June 2024 (UTC)